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Post by deeconsistent on Mar 14, 2018 14:54:29 GMT -4
This was a big mashup of random thoughts floating around in my head after midnight. Bruno is a hard worker but he’s not like Beyoncé or Rihanna levels of cultural influence, and I think it’s fine that people have opinions about how anti-black racism rewards him in ways that it would not otherwise reward black artists. I had to laugh at your post because you said some things I was thinking but opted not to address for the sake of brevity. I do think there is a little nostalgia-goggling clouding just how much better, more wholesome and woman-friendly music was 20-25 years ago. Also, what you said reminded me of something someone posted here after the Grammys that stuck with me. Ed Sheeran made this transparent, sanctimonious comment about the diversity of this past year's nominees and not attending because he didn't get the recognition he thought he deserved. Naturally, he ended up winning and someone stated something like "I guess this should show him that it really is about the best person winning". I got what she was saying, but I just remember thinking someone else would probably interpret his winning in a completely different way .
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save lilo!
Blueblood
Posts: 1,195
Jul 25, 2007 17:38:37 GMT -4
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Post by save lilo! on Mar 14, 2018 19:14:28 GMT -4
This was a big mashup of random thoughts floating around in my head after midnight. Bruno is a hard worker but he’s not like Beyoncé or Rihanna levels of cultural influence, and I think it’s fine that people have opinions about how anti-black racism rewards him in ways that it would not otherwise reward black artists. I had to laugh at your post because you said some things I was thinking but opted not to address for the sake of brevity. I do think there is a little nostalgia-goggling clouding just how much better, more wholesome and woman-friendly music was 20-25 years ago. Also, what you said reminded me of something someone posted here after the Grammys that stuck with me. Ed Sheeran made this transparent, sanctimonious comment about the diversity of this past year's nominees and not attending because he didn't get the recognition he thought he deserved. Naturally, he ended up winning and someone stated something like "I guess this should show him that it really is about the best person winning". I got what she was saying, but I just remember thinking someone else would probably interpret his winning in a completely different way . I live in NYC too, we could be friends I hate Ed Sheehan, ugh. I just find it so inexcusable nowadays to be so blithely unaware about black issues. I’m not black but I am a double minority (woman, Asian American) so I know that we need black people to get ahead in all avenues in order for the rest of us to get the recognition and respect and equal treatment we all deserve. I wish it was just so easy enough to be able to support black artists when and where they are available but unfortunately we can’t depend on the white male majority to continuously curate and define what constitutes as popular and acceptable. Oscars and Grammys matter because no matter how outdated the awardees and tastes are, they are key to bringing the Ava’s from Selma to Wrinkle in Time or the Coogler’s from Fruitvale Station to a major motion superhero action movie with an almost all black cast. These things matter because black people aren’t afforded these opportunities without passing the test of getting awards!!
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celerydunk
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,521
May 3, 2005 21:57:59 GMT -4
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Post by celerydunk on Mar 15, 2018 9:38:39 GMT -4
I wish it was just so easy enough to be able to support black artists when and where they are available but unfortunately we can’t depend on the white male majority to continuously curate and define what constitutes as popular and acceptable. Studio heads want to make money. If "black" movies brought in near as much money as "white" movies, we would see a lot more of them. Is it easy to find these movies? No, but when they do we need to go see them. The head of a major movie studio is not saying to himself he should make movies for the betterment of society. He is trying to make money. Marvel movies are huge because they put butts in seats. They are running a business, I'm not sure why we expect them to do anything but try to make a profit. I am one of these minorities and like most of us, I could write a book on my experiences. So it's not like I'm some oblivious suburbanite. But I know that the rich studio head is not worried about what I want to see. He only cares about what I will pay to see. Simple as that. I also don't follow award shows. Do Grammys/Oscars really help careers? If we look at the highest paid actors and compare them to award winners, how much overlap is there? When I get somw downtime, I'm going to Google it because I am legitimately curious.
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Post by ladyboy on Mar 15, 2018 10:27:03 GMT -4
I find Bruno Mars so slickly innocuous it's kind of funny that he's become this touchstone of controversy. I get why, but that it's sticking to him of all people is weird. Similar issues/arguments have been raised with other artists before. Maybe it's just the timing of it.
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Post by Mutagen on Mar 15, 2018 16:02:06 GMT -4
In a way, winning all those Grammys might have been more of a curse than a blessing. That's when the backlash seemed to really swell.
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Post by Babycakes on Mar 15, 2018 16:35:56 GMT -4
I am one of these minorities and like most of us, I could write a book on my experiences. So it's not like I'm some oblivious suburbanite. But I know that the rich studio head is not worried about what I want to see. He only cares about what I will pay to see. Simple as that. I also don't follow award shows. Do Grammys/Oscars really help careers? If we look at the highest paid actors and compare them to award winners, how much overlap is there? When I get somw downtime, I'm going to Google it because I am legitimately curious. I think post awards show, there is a bump in ticket and music sales. Some people only watch the big show once a year, and come to find out what's popular. They get exposed to new and popular things, and want to see what all the fuss is about. Look at what happened to Ricky Martin after his Grammy performance. He might have been big in the Latin market, but he became an overnight American sensation after his Cup of Life performance. I too have discovered new artists, and movies after shows. So it definitely raises profiles. But it doesn't always sustain a career. There are far too many cases to list of "Where are they now?" Best new artist winners. And some say there's a curse on the female winners of Best and Supporting Actress. Their follow up movies are usually atrocious and can derail or slow down their careers. So it's a toss up. What is promising though, the success of Girls Trip, and Black Panther. Executives are finally realizing that black movies have a wider audience and can make lots of bank. Hopefully that means that more movies that feature more than the generic white man, or thin white waif ingenue can get made, and get proper marketing. Make a quality product, and people will go see it. I'm nervously excited for Crazy Rich Asians.
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dragonflie
Blueblood
Posts: 1,956
Mar 14, 2005 2:10:14 GMT -4
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Post by dragonflie on Mar 15, 2018 16:36:47 GMT -4
I have a question: What is he supposed to do? What would make any (all?) of the ppl who have a problem with him specifically feel better?
I saw posted that he surrounds himself with other black artists (his band is black, dancers, etc)... So, if he had an all white band, would that be better? Should it all be filipino's? Is there a middle ground? At what point would people who are upset be satisfied?
Or- are we all supposed to stay in our corners and not follow the music we like/are good at as an artist (if you are filipino what music would it be ok for you to play in the U.S?) because we aren't the right race? It's not as if the Filipino culture is out there taking over and oppressing the rights of... well... anyone in North America.
** I could be 10000% ignorant in this post. If so, educate me. I also mean no disrespect. These are genuine questions- what is he supposed to do? He's not some old white male executive here. Why the vitriol? I understand the vitriol to the system- the anger that the black experience and life is so dismissed... But by what metric are we faulting Mars for this? Is he more successful than most black male artists today... sure. But it's not as if he is at fault for this.
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Post by deeconsistent on Mar 15, 2018 21:12:58 GMT -4
I have a question: What is he supposed to do? What would make any (all?) of the ppl who have a problem with him specifically feel better? I saw posted that he surrounds himself with other black artists (his band is black, dancers, etc)... So, if he had an all white band, would that be better? Should it all be filipino's? Is there a middle ground? At what point would people who are upset be satisfied? Of course there could be a middle ground. I don't get why so many people in this thread are resorting to reductive absurdism to make their points. IMO, that just shows how it's easier to get defensive instead of genuinely examining the issue. I'm not saying everyone would or should come to the same conclusion, but it would at least be an honest dialogue.I haven't read anyone saying that Bruno Mars should only service filipino radio stations and should only be able to work with filipino musicians. I also don't think he has to come to a middle ground with the number of blacks he has in his band. What I specifically said is that his all black band, along with him performing traditionally black music were probably big factors in why there was a long stream of posters on here who said they thought he was black or mixed with black. I personally don't think that's accidental. Like I've said elsewhere in this thread, I don't think he's required to do anything. What I thought was more notable was the reaction to the "controversy", as if the latest version of the oldest story in pop music was just a figment of some crazies' imaginations. You only have to go back a few pages in this very thread to see multiple people saying "I'm not his target audience, but..." So, why is it such an out there proposition that someone whose career is basically a throwback mixtape is benefiting from the same type of favortism that other artists have experienced all throughout the modern era? There doesn't have to be a definitive, catch-all solution. A lot of social issues don't have those. Things are complicated, but I just don't believe ignoring those complications is a better option. People like things with baggage all the time and liking Bruno Mars music is hardly the worst thing anyone has done. I'm not even claiming it's a bad thing. It's fine to say " I don't seek out r&b and the pop station plays him and I ended up liking his music." It just seems downright bizarre to me to have a combination of all of the classic hallmarks, but still pretend that it's different somehow and not a reflection of society. eta It's also fine to say " I do seek out r&b and I mostly listen to that and I am a huge Bruno Mars fan." Both Justins have a lot of fans who are primarily into urban music, Madonna does, etc. And I'm not bashing any of them for that.
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save lilo!
Blueblood
Posts: 1,195
Jul 25, 2007 17:38:37 GMT -4
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Bruno Mars
Mar 15, 2018 21:17:38 GMT -4
via mobile
Post by save lilo! on Mar 15, 2018 21:17:38 GMT -4
I have a question: What is he supposed to do? What would make any (all?) of the ppl who have a problem with him specifically feel better? I saw posted that he surrounds himself with other black artists (his band is black, dancers, etc)... So, if he had an all white band, would that be better? Should it all be filipino's? Is there a middle ground? At what point would people who are upset be satisfied? Or- are we all supposed to stay in our corners and not follow the music we like/are good at as an artist (if you are filipino what music would it be ok for you to play in the U.S?) because we aren't the right race? It's not as if the Filipino culture is out there taking over and oppressing the rights of... well... anyone in North America. ** I could be 10000% ignorant in this post. If so, educate me. I also mean no disrespect. These are genuine questions- what is he supposed to do? He's not some old white male executive here. Why the vitriol? I understand the vitriol to the system- the anger that the black experience and life is so dismissed... But by what metric are we faulting Mars for this? Is he more successful than most black male artists today... sure. But it's not as if he is at fault for this. I don’t follow him bc I’m not a fan so IDK if he has done anything but it’s pretty easy to Tweet or donate money to black causes to acknowledge? I really don’t know. I’m sure there’s someone who is a good example of appreciating and acknowledging and giving back. I don’t really think of Eminem culturally appropriating somehow so I guess he is doing something right? Which is laughable in its own way. I’m sure he’s had problems before too? I’m glad this conversation is happening so I can also read and learn more about it! YES I AM ALSO SO EXCITED FOR CRAZY RICH ASIANS (the movie)!! I don’t think it will be great but I’m happy it is being MADE.
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eveschmeve
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,329
Mar 7, 2005 15:24:15 GMT -4
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Post by eveschmeve on Mar 15, 2018 23:49:34 GMT -4
In a way, winning all those Grammys might have been more of a curse than a blessing. That's when the backlash seemed to really swell. Yup, especially because he beat Kendrick Lamar for Album of the Year.
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