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Post by angelaudie on Dec 30, 2014 16:18:39 GMT -4
Women like her and Evangeline Lilly seem to want to reduce feminism to wanting to be like a man or gender roles in the home. They don't understand the subtleties of sexism and how it plays out with respect to segregated employment sectors, hierarchies of power and privilege within various institutions, violence against women, access to various goods and resources in society and on and on. Are they that stupid? To be fair many noncelebs don't grasp these concepts. They are the ones that think since women have the right to vote, can go to college, and can work outside the home that feminism is no longer necessary. These people also think racism no longer exists because the US elected a black president. They are privileged but don't realize they are. I don't think they are stupid necessarily. More like they live in a bubble and have never ventured outside of it. Ignorant would probably be a better way to describe them. But, of course, it doesn't help feminism kinda got a little lazy and as a result we have many young women who sincerely don't understand what feminism is. So, they end up spouting many feminism ideals but quickly add on, "Oh but I'm not a feminist! I dig penises!" Look at Shailene Woodley. She has often bemoaned how the media attempted to pit her against Jennifer Lawrence. She was right to be upset and frustrated. But she's not a feminist because she loves everybody including men.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 15:24:47 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 18:07:54 GMT -4
Its easy to have that viewpoint when you're white, pretty, rich, and YOUNG. Let's see how she feels after she reaches 40 in Hollywood.
And on a shallow note...that haircut. No.
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Post by Ginger on Dec 30, 2014 22:17:38 GMT -4
The hairdo and the new job as pharmaceutical rep are like double shark jumping on BBT.
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Post by Freelance Exorcist on Dec 31, 2014 11:30:23 GMT -4
Oh, Kaley, if I wanted to hear from an asshole, I'd fart.
There needs to be some tough love on the part of PR folks before they send these chuckleheads out into the world to do interviews. At the very least, the saying "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt" should be printed on massive banners and hung in the main lobby of every PR agency.
+1000. Nothing to add, because you've said it perfectly. We'll see what song she sings when she wakes up one day and finds out that the privilege she currently enjoys has completely evaporated.
Funny coincidence: I'm binge watching The Walking Dead, S2 right now and they just played the scene where Lori shames Andrea for wanting to help defend the farm instead of doing wimmenz work.
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thneed
Landed Gentry
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Jun 19, 2006 0:42:40 GMT -4
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Post by thneed on Dec 31, 2014 12:46:23 GMT -4
The thing is, none of these celebs really are anti-feminist. They love Malala Yousafzai. They have warm fuzzy feelings about Sheryl Sandberg. They have no problem with a woman President, CEO, brain surgeon, etc. They'vre had an abortion, or know someone who has. In their own lives, they earn a living, probably own a production company, and control their fertility, and the essential rightness of all these things is so ingrained they don't even question it. If their boss is a woman or a man, it makes no difference to them. And if they ever are hit on by a powerful male producer, they probably resent the hell out of it. So, yeah, feminist.
I think the problem is, sadly, organized feminism and progressive causes. For decades now, they have let the right-wing control the narrative. Made the image of feminist into a woman who whines and gripes and always wants to SMASH THE PATRIARCHY11111!!! for no reason, who hates sex, is always picking stupid fights about PC garbage like calling a mailbox a "femalebox", gets Hulk-angry over a man holding the door for her, and refuses to look pretty for political reasons. She's probably some hippie vegan who believes in the earth goddess and crochets her own tampons. That if you really have it together as a woman, you are a cool girl "one of the guys" who has no need for any kind of political reform because men respect you and treat you no differently than they do other men, and feminism is a crutch for women whose work isn't good enough to command respect on its own.
That's been the narrative for how long now? And it hasn't gone unchallenged, as the organized left has devolved into petty sniping and tone policing with its own fellow progressives over bullshit. Maybe these idiot celebs are the canaries in the coal mine.
Although doesn't she financially support her husband? She also probably has a prenup the size of War and Peace. You would think she might make the connection somewhere between feminism and how she chooses to live her own life.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 15:24:47 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 13:39:06 GMT -4
I've grown tired of the instant attack on female celebrities who, for whatever reason, state they aren't a feminist (and I say this as someone who is guilty of doing just that in the very recent past, I'm trying to break the habit). Not everyone is on the same page at the same time. When it comes to feminism, not understanding it doesn't automatically make someone dumb or an awful person. I don't think Shailene Woodley is dumb. I don't think Kaley Cuoco is an awful person (see how I avoided addressing her intellect there ). When you attack people, they tend to feel defensive and close their minds even further. When women attack other women for not getting it instead of trying to understand where they are coming from and explain it to them on their level, it's self-defeating and we all lose. Like I said in my earlier post, the way the interviewer asked the question and framed the answers is more problematic than the answers themselves because, judging from the tone of the article, I think it's safe to say that this journalist has a full understanding of what the word feminist means and couldn't be more pleased that KC didn't because his article is now quoted all over the net. He played a game of PC gotcha, and I think he's the way bigger asshole in this scenario.
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fabrichnova
Lady in Waiting
Posts: 467
Apr 23, 2006 22:27:32 GMT -4
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Post by fabrichnova on Dec 31, 2014 19:32:36 GMT -4
Yeah, much as I want to jump all over her words and say, "girl, what the fuck is wrong with you???" I think that'd be basically giving the reporter exactly what he/she wants. And I don't think that's really conducive to an actual conversation about feminism and its meaning and implications.
As brain-addled as those comments are, in her own inarticulate way, I think she was trying to (albeit misguidedly) point out that she hasn't faced real suffering, so I almost interpreted her words as an acknowledgment that she has been the beneficiary of an easier life than other women. Or maybe I'm giving her too much credit.
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Post by Freelance Exorcist on Dec 31, 2014 22:18:47 GMT -4
I have to respectfully disagree. To me, she hasn't shown that she's self-aware enough to think that, so I can't help but arrive at a "let them eat cake"/"I got mine, so screw the rest of you" conclusion. As for the whole "but I cook for my mayun!" thing, all it takes is a quick perusal of feminist and feminist-leaning sites to see that the majority of feminists also like to do nice things for their SOs, cook, entertain, wear makeup, heels and dresses or any other traditionally gender-specific activity yet still identify as feminists.
If, in the face of all the information out there to the contrary, these young women choose to associate feminism with a ridiculous stereotype manufactured by those who are threatened by us, I can't help but conclude that they choose to remain ignorant yet still elect to spout off on the subject as if they were experts on it because they're celebrities and the world NEEDS their opinions. That earns them a healthy STFU from me, not an olive branch, because they make their statements in a way that makes it clear that they think they're right and have no interest in becoming correctly informed.
IMO, Kaley Cuoco, Shailene Woodley, Evangeline Lilly, etc. spouting off about feminism despite being ignorant are no different than my Teabagger relatives yammering on about Obama being a Kenyan Muslim despite this being repeatedly debunked. They're too wedded to their own opinions and need to be right.
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Deleted
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May 18, 2024 15:24:47 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2014 22:41:26 GMT -4
I've grown tired of the instant attack on female celebrities who, for whatever reason, state they aren't a feminist (and I say this as someone who is guilty of doing just that in the very recent past, I'm trying to break the habit). Not everyone is on the same page at the same time. When it comes to feminism, not understanding it doesn't automatically make someone dumb or an awful person. I don't think Shailene Woodley is dumb. I don't think Kaley Cuoco is an awful person (see how I avoided addressing her intellect there ). When you attack people, they tend to feel defensive and close their minds even further. When women attack other women for not getting it instead of trying to understand where they are coming from and explain it to them on their level, it's self-defeating and we all lose. Like I said in my earlier post, the way the interviewer asked the question and framed the answers is more problematic than the answers themselves because, judging from the tone of the article, I think it's safe to say that this journalist has a full understanding of what the word feminist means and couldn't be more pleased that KC didn't because his article is now quoted all over the net. He played a game of PC gotcha, and I think he's the way bigger asshole in this scenario. I understand your views and respect them. However, I think you are giving these women too much leeway. They can educate themselves on the subject easily. Many women and men have sacrificed (and continue to sacrifice) for the rights of women. However, feminism isn't just a women's issue. It's also a human rights issue - the right to not be defined, limited or maligned based solely on not having a Y chromosome. Kaley should realize how lucky she is to not have experienced (though as stated earlier - I'm sure she has!) any issues because the vast majority of women on this planet cannot say that! She needs to realize there is a world that exists beyond her nose. However to your point I realize some women are young and live in a bubble. Time and experience hopefully will be their teacher. And that will happen only if they are open to it. Also, there are many women who were raised with defined religious beliefs. The Duggars come to mind. There will always be women and men defined solely by their religion. To each his own but in my eyes it cuts into the very heart of what feminism is - the right to choose. If a woman makes a religion her choice then more power to her but most women don't get to choose - at least not without dire consequences - Being cut off from family, shunned, threatened, beaten, or even murdered. It's unfortunate that organized religion is chiefly patriarchal and has a poor history in its treatment of women (and others) which is why although I am religious I don't practice a religion. I wish celebs would consider these issues when they speak about this subject. I have to add that I think in Kaley's case. Her views seem more influenced by protecting her husband's masculinity... Just my opinion. But He'll feel better after he gets rich when they divorce! Not that I'm wishing that on them. I hope they are happily married and my naughty opinions are wrong. Feminism seems to be the latest entertainment news "bait" for juicy quotes. Until this trend passes (which is unfortunate because it is so important) I suggest celebs educate themselves (just a bit) before they comment. Finally to address the question "Does everyone have to say they are a feminist?" Of course not! Tomorrow Kaley and Shailene and etc can change their mind and choose to be feminists. They can choose who to marry, who to divorce, where to live, where they travel, what projects they will work on, what school they want to attend. "Choice". It's a good thing! ~ Martha Stewart. So maybe I'm asking too much but I'd like them to acknowledge that great gift and realize those rights still aren't available for many women...ya know, to go along with "I'm old fashioned" or "I like men!" as their rationale. Yes, It pisses me off that these women are so quickly dismissive of the effort and sacrifice so many have made so that they can have their very, very, very fortunate lives. So long story short - I'm still going after anyone who spouts any ignorance (not in reference to you highondegrassi. I found your comments interesting, sincere and thought provoking) whether woman or man - respectfully....generally.
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Post by Coffeecakes on Dec 31, 2014 23:42:29 GMT -4
Sorry but it is 2014 and in some parts already 2015 and if people say stupid shit and are ignorant to what feminism is, then I will keep calling them dumbasses and my hand will continue to want go across their face more than a couple of times.
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