Never Don't Mind About A Thing- The KPop Thread

[chiqui]

Yeah, my feeling is that they are yaoi boys come to life for some of these young girls. Plus, they are not present in the American gossip media like Justin Bieber or Harry Styles, so chances are no one's illusions of them are going to get shattered.

[SweetOblivion]

Dec 30, 2017 3:40:44 GMT -4 save lilo! said:

I am Korean-American, really used to like K-pop in junior HS (basically all the HOT active years), and I am still surprised at how many non-Asian people reacted to that death a few weeks ago. Seeing this also made me feel slightly uncomfortable because I am not 100% sure what is so appealing for people who did not grow up with the language or the culture / how much of it veers towards exoticizing the culture. I suspect it also has a little to do with the idealization and romanticizing the portrayal of Korean men in these dramas and movies. If we're having an open dialogue about it, does anyone care to share?

It probably had a lot to do with the sensational nature of his death. He was young, talented, *enormously* popular both with SHINee and as a solo artist, and very well loved by everyone who knew him. He was never involved in any scandals, and was by all accounts a nice guy who, deliberately and with a lot of preparation, took his own life. Probably most any foreign celebrity under those circumstances would have made the news.

No doubt the fetishization of Asian culture occurs, but can't one appreciate a culture without exoticizing it? I like the food/arts of lots of different cultures, but I don't get precious about it.  It's infuriating that the creepers have ruined it for everyone. 

As for non-threatening boy groups, it really depends. Groups can range from the boyfriend concept like Seventeen or Astro to the darker groups like VIXX (who designed a thong and a vibrating lightstick for their fans) or BigBang. And then there's the in between groups like EXO, who went from their debut boyfriend concept to their latest album, which has a subtle/not really song about getting a hand job (the song is called Touch It if you're curious. Note the not-at-all-subtle choreography).

In a nutshell, I guess I like KPop because it can be fun and listening to it makes me happy, and it's made me a lot of friends. If you find something that makes you happy, why not?

[save lilo!]

To clarify, I am uncomfortable with the idea of adult women potentially fetishizing their musical crushes because of the musician's race or ethnic identity. I think we can all agree that Korean pop music builds a very oppressive culture around these idols, and this pressure to be perfect (or not involved in scandals) while maintaining a crazy stressful schedule, not having time to take care of their mental health, find love, etc is even more obscene in Korean pop culture than it is elsewhere. Albums are put out back to back with little to no rest in between. American artists can take a much longer rest period than Korean stars. This particular suicide just highlights how bad it can be for celebrities and for people struggling with mental health issues in Korea. I do wonder how much of this unrealistic idolization negatively contributes their mental health, and that makes me very sad.

I didn't say that I didn't understand why people are affected by a celebrity death. I didn't say that I couldn't understand why someone likes to listen to catchy music. What I don't understand is the obsession over the culture over the normal teenybopper age. Of course someone can appreciate a culture without exoticizing it, but I think that comes with a fuller understanding of it than "Asian boys are so cute!", which is the vibe I get from the posters I see on Facebook.

[chonies]

I haven't seen any of the posts you're referring to, save lilo!, but the "Asian boys are so cute" rings like it might be the flip side of other media and topical discussions acknowledging that Asian women are cast as dragon ladies or China dolls, Asian male characters are not portrayed as sexy or desirable, or athletic, and historical discussions about yellow face and eye-taping as well as conversations about whitewashing in casting. From what I've seen (mostly from eavesdropping on college students), a lot of it comes across as misdirected advocacy of a sort, perhaps not unlike whenever I see a well-meant post about how chubby girls are so cute.

I'm not part of the fandom, so are the women you're talking about a new iteration of the Twilight Moms/Harry Potter moms?

FWIW, my own experience with Bollywood fandom was immersive in a way I've seen in a lot of KPop/Jpop fans, i.e. there are no casual fans. People tend to be all in--learning the language, studying the food, looking into religious/social/cultural references in the film, and so on. In my personal experience, a lot of this has to do with the ease of access. I saw my first Bollywood films before streaming was a thing, and it was a serious hassle to watch more*; by the time 2004 rolled around, it was a different story. People outside the culture can go deep now because they can, although in my experience, I didn't follow a lot of the 'means of production' information, beyond the general lifecycle of Bollywood star culture and the types of movies that got produced.

*which informed a thesis I wrote later. If it was a drag for me, as a film fan who wasn't South Asian, what was the experience like for people for whom the films were made?

[SweetOblivion]

Well said, chonies.

Marvel's newest superhero is going to be a KPop star

[luthia]

I got into k-pop after Jonghyun died last year. I had never heard of him, Shinee or k-pop before that. After he died, my facebook page was bombarded with articles about his suicide so I clicked on the articles because I wanted to know who this Jonghyun was. As I was reading the articles about his suicide and about the k-pop industry, I became intrigued for some strange reason. I wanted to know why such a great looking guy who was obviously very famous (based on the number of articles on his death) committed suicide. I also noticed that Jonghyun was extremely good looking, which intrigued and made me want to find out about Shinee. Within a month of his death, I did a crash course on Shinee viewing their music videos and variety show appearances. I also learned about the k-pop industry and its oppressive approach, as well as the high suicide rate in South Korea - something I wasn't aware of. Taken together, all of these things intrigued me. I am now hooked on Jonghyun (although I wish I had known about him before his death), Shinee and the behind the scenes workings of the k-pop industry (especially the training period k-pop stars have to endure). It is a bit strange that I am hooked since I had never heard of Jonghyun, Shinee or k-pop before. Of course, I remember Psy and his big hit Gangnam Style, but I had no idea when that song came out in 2012 that he was connected to a type of music called k-pop.

I have also been very much impacted by Jong's suicide, which is also strange since my fandom began after his death. I find k-pop highly entertaining and glossy with great looking guys. Its escapist, which is perhaps why I like it. I can't say that I like any other k-pop groups as much as I like Shinee, but I like a few past and current songs by BTS and I like the looks and dancing style of Kai in Exo. Besides their looks, I like Shinee because they have a lot of personality (based on television appearances I have seen), seem to have an authentic brotherly connection, have great fashion sense and style, can sing and dance and put on an exciting stage show.

Yes, I am definitely a new fan. I am glad that I found Shinee and k-pop, despite the fact that my appreciation came after Jong's death. I have to say that SM Entertainment certainly knows what it is doing in terms of churning out groups that shine, although their tactics may, indeed, be oppressive.

I would love to see a big screen movie or documentary that focuses on the trainee years and all of the oppressive stuff that goes on behind the scenes. I think that would be interesting.

[save lilo!]

Really you’re seeing the brotherly love and great personalities because I think appearances on TV are really their bread and butter, no? Without their winning personas, they wouldn’t be as popular and actually make any money since they make more money from appearance fees. American celebrities don’t make money from Jimmy Fallon and award shows, do they?

That is the aspect I like about Korean pop culture, everyone *looks* like they’re having a lot of fun and comedians are really front and center with a lot of variety type shows.

Back in the day, they would do a reality show with Kpop stars called Guerilla Concert. They would just show up at a random town and within 12 hours or so, the singer or group would have to go out and connect with the public to get people to come to their concert that evening. I thought an American version of this would be so great but if course it’s now really different with the prevalence of social media.

Actually there were a lot of reality TV shows that Korea had before the emergence of it in the US. One of the more recent fascinating ones is called Let Me In. Mee-in means beautiful person in Korean so the pun is pretty great. It’s like the super extreme version of Extreme Makeover and honestly? I can’t help but think plastic surgery is helpful in these extreme cases.

Before streaming internet and even before DVDs, there was this whole economy of “video stores” in Korean enclaves in American towns where we would pay money to borrow videotapes of TV shows broadcast in Korea. I wonder what these store owners are doing now!!