The Film Industry Thread

[berrybearie]

Color me shocked that Burton doesn't get final cut.

Me too. I would have thought he would - his track record isn't perfect, but I'd think he's made enough B.O. to get final cut. I guess WB is all worked up about the additional tickets a PG-13 would bring in. Wasn't Sleepy Hollow an R? I don't know its BO, but I'd think it did reasonably well. I'm not "pro" movie violence, but I think Burton, better than probably just about anyone, could make the scenes both shocking and stylish. The plot has a high body count and it wouldn't be gratuitous to the plot to show the killings.

I've enjoyed the A-List/ not A-List discussion. It seems like with some stars it's so obvious (e.g., Tom Hanks is A-List across the board with high recognizability, awards, big box office, etc.), but it's like a report card could with grades in different areas. So somebody like Cate Blanchett gets As in the "prestige" areas in terms of awards, directors wanting to work with her, lead roles in Oscar contenders, etc., while somebody like Jennifer Aniston gets an A for being high profile and getting lots of press, but for movies has mostly been in girlfriend parts (and not particularly successful when she's not, at least so far (e.g., Rumor Has It) or her Bruce Almighty costar Jim Carrey who's probably coasting on his prior huge hits in terms of name recognition, but The Number 23 bombed. For a lot of stars that may average out to being A- or B+.

[scarlet]

I really, really hate when the studios make cuts just to get that almighty PG-13 rating. Sometimes, a movie is just an R, and to edit it to Hell and back in the hopes of getting a few more people in the seats just screws up the film.

[Matilda]

I'd say Ben Affleck's still just about A-list, mainly due to his early career and the Good Will Hunting success. Saw the trailer for Gone, Baby, Gone (the film he's directed) and it actually looks good, so he might be about to start making up for the past few years.

With some of the others mentioned: I think Aniston and Garner are still B-list and would need a few really successful movies to be considered A-list. To me, they're both still TV actors having a go at making movies.

Has Jude Law been discussed? Where do you think he stands? From a British point of view, he's A-list, as is Kate Winslet, Catherine Zeta Jones, Keira Knightley, but where does he really stand in Hollywood? B+?

[Atreides]

LOTR was a sausage-fest all around The three women in those movies had very little to do. I think Cate Blanchett said she filmed all her scenes in two weeks.

I think there are lots of famous female stars as they dominate the magazine covers far more than the men. But right now, the only actress who can get butts in the seats regularly is Reese Witherspoon. Cameron Diaz stumbles badly outside of Shrek and in lead roles, Julia Roberts is in semi-retirement and Angelina has a ton of bombs on her resume and is too busy saving the world anyway.

I'd put Jude Law on the B-list. Chris Rock was painfully on target a few years ago at the Oscars when he mocked Jude for all his box office bombs*. His only lead role in a move that made any decent coin was Cold Mountain. I think most people only know him for banging his kids' nanny.

*and the best part was when humorless Sean Penn came out and defended Jude. And then their movie, All the King's Men, came out a few months later and was DOA financially and critically. Ha!

[Deleted]

Moldy, I think that you have a point with A List Women Stars. Who can actually open a movie? Pull in up to $10 million or more opening week just on her name---no one cares if the movie is any good.

• Julia Roberts: Her name was Box Office Gold before the babies. But she was getting long in the tooth ;D before them. As you said, age does kill romantic comedy.
  
  
• Meryl Streep: An old Cate Blanchett. Highly prized and valued. But open a movie? Well, she had The Devil Loves Prada recently. Her record is spotty. She is no Bette Davis.
  
  
• Cameron Diaz: For reasons beyond my comprehension, she can open a movie.
  
  
• Sandra Bullock: Yeah, she can open an movie and she is a work horse. No vacations for her, she always has something coming up. She is a good producer for herself. See Drew Barrymore.
  
  
• Jodie Foster: She can open and she can get movies made. But she never got Flora Plum into production. She's a woman's actress. Woman like her.
  
  
• Reese Witherspoon: The now and future Julia Roberts, but with the long chin instead of the long teeth. Women like her, too. She produces and can open and get a movie made. A higher rung on the food chain Sandra Bullock.
  
  
• Renee Zellweger: Other than Bridget Jones, she has never really carried the Box Office.
  
  
• Kiera Knightley: She lucked into Pirates of the Carribean and it's not her movie, it's Johnny Depp's. She showed some promise in Bend It Like Beckham and got some critical acclaim and a small, very small Box Office in Pride and Prejudice. No I take that back, P &P Box Office was Jane Austen all the way. Jane Austen---now that is Women's Box Office.
  
  
• Nicole Kidman: The foreign Box Office loves her. Domestically, she's problematic. And she is aging---Botox ain't gonna stop that. Time to start fighting Meryl Streep for some of her roles.
  
  
• Scarlett Johansson: Men like her breasts, but men don't make women Box Office Stars, other women do. And women don't care much about her breasts.
  
  
• Natalie Portman: She's been in big Box Office; but those movies weren't hers. Someone else could have been successfully cast in any of them. She needs female fans; and I haven't seen any movie of hers that would attract them.
  
  
• Kirsten Dunst: See Portman above. Although I thought that she had possibilities in Marie Antoinette, but not enough viewers did. Look at that movie by whatshisface who did Almost Famous. Orlando Bloom and Kirsten Dunst were in it and nobody cared.
  
  
• Halle Berry: What has she ever opened? Miscast for her Oscar, but that is typical for Oscars for women these days.
  
  
• Drew Barrymore: She can open and produce and get the movie made. A sort of Poor Woman's Sandra Bullock, but aiming to take over and be a Rich one.
  
  
• Kate Winslet: She has a lot of good will for Box Office from Titanic and has developed the Woman Fan Base (all those 13 year old girls are 23 now), but it hasn't come together for her. Like Blanchett, she does the interesting pictures, but they don't get the Box Office that they deserve.
  
  
• Meg Ryan: Age and Plastic Surgery have done her in. Can she act (not well, but enough) to carry off character parts? She has or had the Woman Fan Base.
  
  
• Angelina Jolie: A lot of Box Office hype---but did Tomb Raider ever really pay off? She can act and she has the Woman Fans and Brad Pitt that Jennifer Anniston doesn't have.
  
  
• Michelle Pfeiffer: Nope, but she can act and occasionally makes interesting choices. Stardust isn't doing anything for her or Claire Danes.
  
  
• Whoopi Goldberg: She had her heyday two decades ago. There is a reason why she is now cat fighting on The View.
  
  
• Kate Hudson: Somebody in Hollywood wishes she had Box Office. They keep putting her in movies.
  
  
• Salma Hayek: Interesting and she can make things happen---Frieda and Ugly Betty. But no real star draw. Her power may lie in TV producing. Could she be the next Aaron Spelling?
  
  
• Charlize Theron: One critical success. No real Box Office success that didn't have Mark Wahlberg or some male actor in it.
  
  
• Naomi Watts: She had King Kong, maybe in more ways than one. But that was really his movie. Never work with animals, hon.
  
  
• Uma Thurman: She usually impersonates a man; not that it helps her Box Office much. Kill Bill was Tarantino's movie. He would have done her part if he could have made himself look sort of pretty.
  
  
• Jennifer Lopez: She's making the movies and the perfume and the fashion and the....business. But she ain't making her money off her Box Office---it was her notoriety that was her money maker and shaker.
  
  
• Gwyneth Paltrow: The Kate Hudson of a decade ago. Somebody in Hollywood just gave up on her---Harvey Weinstein has moved to other starlets.

[fairfox]

I think there are lots of famous female stars as they dominate the magazine covers far more than the men. But right now, the only actress who can get butts in the seats regularly is Reese Witherspoon. Cameron Diaz stumbles badly outside of Shrek and in lead roles, Julia Roberts is in semi-retirement and Angelina has a ton of bombs on her resume and is too busy saving the world anyway.

Honestly, I think that maybe the only stars I'd put on the A List would be Clooney and Pitt. It's not really all about talent, or prestige or box office or anything - it's a combination of so many intangibles, and I still don't see any female stars in this group (at the same time I don't necessarily see the talent of the male stars in it). It's also so changeable. Based on the intangibles, it could change in hours.

And for the record, I think Brad Pitt is a bad actor and Clooney is a blowhard.

[Atreides]

Brad Pitt also has a lot of bombs on his resume too. Mr. & Mrs. Smith was a huge boost to his and Angelina's careers. Troy to a lesser extent for him. I think Tomb Raider has the record for the highest opening weekend starring a female.

Tom Hanks and somewhat surprisingly, Will Smith, are the only A+ actors I can think of.

Cameron Diaz: For reasons beyond my comprehension, she can open a movie.

Her lead roles in The Sweetest Thing and In Her Shoes bombed hard. And Shrek & Charlie's Angels were more about the movie as a whole than Cameron.

I did forget to add Jodie Foster to the list (she just vanishes from the spotlight when she doesn't have a movie coming out). She is definitely bankable, right up there with Reese, although she doesn't really do comedies. But set her up in anything serious (Panic Room, Flight Plan, Inside Man) and you've got a $20M+ opening. The Brave One looks like it'll continue that streak.

[scarlet]

Tom Hanks and somewhat surprisingly, Will Smith, are the only A+ actors I can think of.

I would agree with that. Both of their names pretty much guarantee huge openings. Cruise used to be part of that group, but then we went crazy and that went away (praise Xenu).

As to women, I think--for whatever reason--that the actual movie plays more into it than the star (as opposed to the above men, where the plot is secondary). I'd say, right now, Reese Witherspoon is probably the only actress who, on name recognition alone, might be able to insure big crowds opening weekend.

[strawberrylover]

atreides said:

Brad Pitt also has a lot of bombs on his resume too. Mr. & Mrs. Smith was a huge boost to his and Angelina's careers. Troy to a lesser extent for him. I think Tomb Raider has the record for the highest opening weekend starring a female.

Someone once pointed out to me that Brad Pitt could never carry a movie on his own. And they're right.

Think about all his best movies. Fight Club was about Ed Norton and the trippy story. Se7en was about Morgan Freeman and Kevin Spacey. Brad Pitt always needs someone else there to prop him up and give the movie depth that he can't lend. Of course, in return, he gets to put forth the pretty.

I did forget to add Jodie Foster to the list (she just vanishes from the spotlight when she doesn't have a movie coming out). She is definitely bankable, right up there with Reese, although she doesn't really do comedies. But set her up in anything serious (Panic Room, Flight Plan, Inside Man) and you've got a $20M+ opening. The Brave One looks like it'll continue that streak.

Absolutely. I love Jodie. I saw Flight Plan in theaters just because of her. And even then I remember thinking how odd it was that I'd probably never do it for any other star, male or female. A lot of people probably feel the same way about her.

She chooses her roles very well. She's a premium brand. You don't get her often, but when you do, it's guaranteed to be a quality project.

[Deleted]

Brad Pitt is foreign Box Office.

Tomb Raider 1 and Tomb Raider 2 did make money. The 1 did pull in $47 million the first week, but I make the argument that was mainly due to the popularity of the game. But I doubt that Miss Jolie's participation hurt. The sequel didn't do as well (but most don't) but 2 did well enough.

Miss Jolie's other biggie other than Mr. & Mrs. Smith was Gone in 60 Seconds. I couldn't tell you the plot of that film; I don't even remember it. It was one of Nicholas Cage's Take the Money and Run (away in 60 seconds) forgettable films. Miss Jolie does her best with a bankable male star or a bankable and beloved game.

Milla Jovovich does quite well with her Resident Evil films, but I wouldn't attribute that to her Box Office power. Most, indeed, I would argue all of that, is due to the popularity of the game that the movie is based upon. It is one reason why Miss Jovovich has turned to the fashion industry to continue to cash in. I guess game geeks would love to get to level Fashionable with her.