True Crime

[whatever]

The John List case has always fascinated me. NJ husband and father kills his entire family because he's afraid of them becoming sinful and wants them to be close to God - more likely that he was ashamed he had lost his job, couldn't find work, and didn't want to admit the financial problems to his family. Left the family in the house for a month while he went on the run - I think it was at least 3-4 weeks before they were found, because he told people they were going on vacation.

Was on the run for almost 30 years. "America's Most Wanted" finally brought him down.

[Sunnyhorse]

BoroKat, this is ompletely off-topic, but this

He has no neck.

made me squawk with laughter.

[putch]

There is one female killer that I believe could be labelled as a serial killer although several people disagree with me. Blanche Taylor Moore was convicted of killing three people and is suspected of a number of other mysterious deaths. Had she not been caught in the late 80's, I think she would have continued. She has been called the "Black Widow" and there is a book called Preacher's Girl that details her crimes. Short summary: beyotch crazee.

Another interesting (and heartbreaking) crime is the Sharp-Newsome-Lynch murders. Very well-connected, wealthy families who had a few members slightly short-circuited. Jerry Bledsoe wrote Bitter Blood about the saga. One of the murderers, Fritz Klenner, hung out in a gun shop that my dad frequented around that time. I didn't think anything of it until I got to the part of the book with the pictures. I remember seeing him in the gun shop. I was around 5 or 6 at the time. Seeing the pictures sent chills down my spine.

[Smilla]

On the subject of female serial killers, I can think of very few who used gory means (not poison or suffocation), didn't work with a male partner, and had a crazy "I love pain" motive (as opposed to killing for financial gain or jealousy). I came up with Enriqueta Marti, Darya Saltykova, and Delphine LaLaurie. The Saltykova and LaLaurie cases were so long ago (centuries) that it makes it difficult to separate fact from fiction; both tortured and killed servants.

As as sugaree mentioned waaaay upthread, we really shouldn't leave out Countess Elizabeth Bathory. The guys who wrote In Search of Dracula did a good job discussing her story. It's quite fascinating to me.

Because of intermarriage among Hungarian nobles, Bathory was born with, let's just say questionable genes, which were probably responsible for her fits (now attributed to epilepsy). Apparently, she suffered an out-of-wedlock pregnancy at age thirteen, (said to be the result of a liason with a peasant boy on the estate of the man she was betrothed to) which produced a child who was secretly sent of the country. After her fifteenth birthday, Bathory was married to a violent Hungarian aristocrat and soldier, known to like torturing the prisoners he captured, who is said to have taught many torture techniques to his wife. She seemed to take unusual joy in torturing young, female servants, especially their genitals, which, well—do you think the pregnancy and the stigma that went along with it left her with issues? Bathory went on to kill 650 girls and young women, recording each murder in her diary, before she acquired enough notoriety for her crimes that King Matthias II (who owed Bathory money) used her "fame" as an excuse to try to get her removed. Another Hungarian official (the governor of Bathory's province, who was a friend of her family) basically used his influence to see that Bathory was never forced to testify at the various relevant trials. (Though her accomplices, who were later executed, did). Her assets remained in her family, and the harshest penalty she suffered was being walled up in a room in her castle. She died there, after about four years of imprisonment, in 1614.

[crivens]

I had a professor who was adamant in his belief that there was no way Bathory could have killed anywhere near 650 people and gotten away with it for as long as she did even in early modern Hungary. We read documents from her trial and he pointed out that her supposed accomplices only confessed after being tortured quite viciously. The History Channel called him and wanted him to participate in a show they were doing about Bathory, but only if he went with the whole 650 dead, "Countess Blood" angle. He turned them down.

I don't remember if he thought she was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, but I do know he thought misogyny, politics and greed were more of a motivation for her trial than anything she might actually have done.

[Smilla]

Woah—that's interesting, crivens! I feel like I should have used the word "allegedly" a lot in my other post.

[celerydunk]

The John List case has always fascinated me. NJ husband and father kills his entire family because he's afraid of them becoming sinful and wants them to be close to God - more likely that he was ashamed he had lost his job, couldn't find work, and didn't want to admit the financial problems to his family. Left the family in the house for a month while he went on the run - I think it was at least 3-4 weeks before they were found, because he told people they were going on vacation.

The best part is that he most likely killed them because he was ashamed of losing his job, but what he didnt know is that he had an extremely valuable Tiffany stained glass skylight in the dining room.

[Smilla]

Wikipedia article on Elizabeth Bathory. The last couple of parts make me think there's much more controversy about the number of her alleged victims, whether or not she kept a diary, and lots of other stuff about her life.

[livviebway]

For someone asking about a good Jack the Ripper site, I remember Casebook. I appologize if that doesn't work, google it if doesn't, but... I'm kind of too scared to check. When I was in my early teens I was briefly interested in Jack the Ripper and though I'd seen the Mary Kelly photograph (and the even more disturbing close up) several times while reading about the case, one day I just kind of snapped and said no more and have actively avoided anything Jack the Ripper-y ever since. That said, I wouldn't say I'm easily scarred, but I can still describe that photograph for you in great detail. Lesson? Keep graphic serial killer photos away from dumb 13 year olds, I guess.

[Deleted]

crivens said:

I had a professor who was adamant in his belief that there was no way Bathory could have killed anywhere near 650 people and gotten away with it for as long as she did even in early modern Hungary. We read documents from her trial and he pointed out that her supposed accomplices only confessed after being tortured quite viciously. The History Channel called him and wanted him to participate in a show they were doing about Bathory, but only if he went with the whole 650 dead, "Countess Blood" angle. He turned them down.

I don't remember if he thought she was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, but I do know he thought misogyny, politics and greed were more of a motivation for her trial than anything she might actually have done.

This isn't a completely accurate analogy, but it made me thought of the Knights Templars, who were accused of amongst other things, being Satanists and worshipping the Anti-Christ. It turned out that Phillip IV of France had an axe to grind with them because he owed them a whole lot of money. Nothing saves you from bankruptcy faster than chopping the heads off of your debitors and condemning them to hell.