History Books

[muddywant]

For anyone who likes ancient history, I think Peter Green is the best writer out there today (he must be in his 80s by now). I loved his book on Salamis and his monumental "Alexander to Actium," was slightly less thrilled by "Alexander of Macedon" (Green has too much disdain for Alexander to make reading a 300+ page book entertaining), and greatly enjoy his poetry translations. Right now I'm reading Robin Lane Fox's "The Classical World: From Homer to Hadrian", which is pretty good but suffers from an excess of unnecessary typographical contortions. Otherwise my other favorite classicists are Emily Vermeule, who wrote "Greece in the Bronze Age" and a book on Greek attitudes towards death, and Frederick Raphael ("Some Talk of Alexander".)

[kafka]

SullaFelix, I'm curious, why is Green disdainful towards Alexander? Also, as a general matter, is his style more readable than Michael Grant's? I find the latter's writing to be almost painful at times.

[muddywant]

Kafka:

Green is nothing like Grant -- he's urbane, witty, and passionate about his subject, whereas I always thought Grant was knowledgeable but dull, prosaic and plodding. My totally unsubstantiated theory is the M.G. churned out so many books so he could support his family and supplement what must have been a meager academic salary. His writings just don't have the sparkle that Peter Green's do. In fact, I love Green so much I'm thinking of writing him a letter to thank him for all the pleasure he's given me as a reader.

Re: Green and Alexander. Green's mainly reacting against the hagiography that arose after his death and the tendency to paint him as some kind of enlightened despot spreading Hellenism and cultural tolerance wherever he went. He focuses on the butchery and brutality of Alexander's conquests (much as Victor David Hanson stresses what the Pelopennesian war meant in human costs) and the thirst of power that drove them. But he's worth reading for the chapters on Philip alone -- he gives a very sympathetic and thorough overview of how Philip made Macedonia a formidable political and military power.

[Deleted]

For anyone who struggled with Thucydides in college, Donald Kagan's "The Pelopennesian War" is a much more readable account and also manages to cover the war through to the end instead of cutting off in the middle as Thucydides does.

The interesting part for me of not cutting out in the middle was to learn that, even after Syracuse, even after the Persians came in on the Spartan's side, the Athenians still recovered enough to have a realistic chance of ultimately winning the war. They still had opportunities to sue for a favorable peace, but let their hubris take over and kept pushing for total victory until they ended up with a total defeat.

And if you want to go back to Thucydides when you aren't just reading selected chapters as a class assignment, he does have his charms. His observation that, the longer a war is fought, the more extreme the measures used to fight it is as true today as it was in WWI or WWII or in his era. And to read his line that "this book was not intended to please an immediate audience, but was meant to last forever", and to realize that he wrote it over 2500 years ago and that you are holding his book in your hand, still finding it relevant, can't help but give you a sense of awe.

[muddywant]

I feel that way about most of the classics -- I can't believe all this glorious stuff has still survived, and can't help mourning for everything that's been lost.

[kafka]

One of my best friends' birthday is coming up and I was hoping to get some book suggestions for a gift. He's passionate about music, has had his writings published about everything from the Sex Pistols to small New Wave groups, and probably has 3000+ books on rock-n-roll, various bands, classical music and more. Is there something new which has recently come out about the history of music which would be a valuable addition to the library of an expert?

I'm woefully out of my depth here and am tempted to get another fancy cookbook for him (food is his other passion), but I think he'd like something on music more. Last year, I got him some thin, popular Music Trivia/snarky Compendium A-to-Z book (I can't remember the name) and a cook book, and I think he preferred the music one.

Also, one of my BIL was asking me for recommendations on books dealing with the history of religious movements. Specifically, groups that are slightly less massive than the Catholics, Jews and Moslems. For example, Mormonism, Calvinism, Christian Scientists, etc. Is there a book which traces the history of various smaller religious groups like these? My knowledge of religious groups is limited to Vatican politics or weird Catholic sects like Opus Dei or the Legionnaires of Christ. I'd be very grateful for any suggestions you may be able to provide.

[Peggy Lane]

Over the summer I read "Old Wisdom in the New World: Americanization in Two Immigrant Theravada Buddhist Temples " by Paul David Numrich. It's not a sweeping history, but it's a good look at how Buddhism has adapted to America. Another favorite is "Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses." The author was raised a Witness and remained one even while becoming a history professor. Eventually he was disfellowshipped. I think it's a fair work and his scholarly training takes the forefront. It covers JW from the beginning and delves deeply in the sociology and theology of the religion.

The Phi Alpha Theta rag reviewed a couple of musical histories in the last few issues. I'll try and dig them out later.

Edited- It was hiding under my bed. The book that looked really interesting is "First Nights at the Opera" by Thomas Forrest Kelly. The review is in the Spring 2006 Historian, and the book is on the Yale Press website.

[Deleted]

Oh dear, let's see:

A biography of Lord Louis Mountbatten, the famous uncle of Prince Phillip, who was assassinated by the IRA in 1979 (they bombed his yacht-also killed was his grandson, Nicholas, only fourteen at the time).
Fascinating individual. I wish the current royals were more like him.

What Jane Austen ATE and Charles Dickens KNEW: From Fox Hunting to Whist-the Facts of Daily Life in 19th-Century England by Daniel Pool

The Road to Mayerling: Life and Death of Crown Prince Rudolph of Austria by Richard Barkelely

And I just finished a book about the Hope Diamond, and The Fate of the Romanovs by Greg King and Penny Wilson. Both Greg and Penny frequent the Alexander Palace Forums.

Non-fiction history is my favorite genre. Especially about royalty.


(Edited because I do not know of any such place as Mayerline!)

[Deleted]

I finally got Prisoners of the North by Pierre Berton. I haven't read that far into it, but I'm finding it to be a fascinating read. It's about five figures in the Canadian North- about their lives and how they contributed to the region. So far I've read about Joe Boyle and Vilhjalmur Stefannson who are both really interesting. I haven't studied the North that much, except briefly in relation to national topics, so this is something fresh.

One thing I always love about Berton's books is that they are detailed and really let you get a feel for the people. In a biographical work like this, this quality really shines through and their motives become more clear. In the same way, the periods and place come alive, as well. You get a fell for the Arctic and why these people were drawn to it.

[ahenobarbus]

I didn't know this thread existed.

The number of history books in print is so staggering, I wouldn't even know where to start. When someone asks for a recommendation regarding history, you usually start by asking very specifically what they want to read about. (19th century Japan or 20th century Japan? American Civil war military history, or American civil war political history? Social history of 18th century France, or intellectual history? )