Questions about Royalty

[Auroranorth]

At this point, according to pre-Revolutionary marriage rules, nobody really has a claim on the throne. Maria has been fighting for it for decades and the Russian Orthodox church has recognized her claim, but it's all pretty sketchy.

[featherhat]

Maria used to say that all her cousins had broken the Pauline laws and were married "unequally" (not to a fellow royal who's parents were also both royals etc).

So by her own rules her son is no longer able to be Heir to the Head of the House. Which is why she gave his bride a "Her Serene Highness" title and not Her Imperial Highness" one. I assume she'll badger the ROC into declaring her son is still legitimately the heir anyway.

A lot of other claims are recognised by other groups and branches of the House. It doesn't matter since there's no chance of a restoration and no chance of getting their hands on property or jewels as the Romanians have done.

That said, it is interesting that they're being allowed the use of two grand state owned properties for Friday.

[Auroranorth]

The irony of Maria's claims is that she herself is descended of an unequal marriage. Her father married Leonida Bagration of Georgia, whose family was considered mere nobility (she held the title of princess, but a previous marriage of a princess of the Russian imperial family to a prince of the Bagration family {who was related to Leonida} had been declared morganatic set the precedent that marriages into that line were barred from the succession.)

[scrabblequeen]

Is someone going to pull them aside and let them know there is no Russian Imperial...anything, anymore? How many generations forward will be calling themselves royal?

And what do they live on these days, exactly? Smuggled jewels from a hundred years ago are still paying the bills?

I find it all very perplexing!

[Lwaxana]

I know nothing about this (except someone is getting married) and need a Russian Royalty primer stat!

[featherhat]

Sept 26, 2021 19:43:58 GMT -4 scrabblequeen said:

Is someone going to pull them aside and let them know there is no Russian Imperial...anything, anymore? How many generations forward will be calling themselves royal?

And what do they live on these days, exactly? Smuggled jewels from a hundred years ago are still paying the bills?

I find it all very perplexing!

There are "royals" all over Europe who's great grandparents were the last to be born when there was anything to inherit. That doesn't stop them using the titles. Or people agreeing to call them that. Look at the fuss over Bea's baby having "an Italian title" even when her husband doesn't use his.

In the case of some German families "Head of the House" actually does mean something because it still means ownership of a lot of money, collections of art and jewels and an estate. Often to be "legitimately" HOH you have to be born of and marry someone from an "equal marriage". They can't change the House Laws about this like say the Windsors can and did because they no longer legally exist and the courts say they can't/won't legislate on family agreements. So you end up marrying a lot of cousins still.

Google Prince Gustav and Carina Axelsson for why they don't get married, it's crazy. He will loose his estate to a cousin if he marries her because of a Nazi clause in his grandfather's will. And estate a lot of his family live on. He's CP Fredrick of Denmark and CP Pavlos of Greece's first cousin.

Then you have cases like Romania, Montenegro and Serbia where the ex royals have received quasi recognised status by the government and are allowed to do things like formally meet ambassadors and live in one of the more minor palaces they used to own.

Others live basically upper middle class lives with jobs and only trot out the titles when they gather for weddings.

Georgi used to have a job but he moved to Russia and I'm not sure what he does now. He does do a lot of quasi royal engagements, mostly for the ROC. But I don't think his mother is rich at all.

[PearlySweetcake]

I put the "Imperial marriage or no?" question out to Penny Wilson, who has co-authored several Russian royal history books with Greg King; they run a "Romanovs and Beyond" FB page. She responded "I would say that it’s as close as we’re going to get. "

[Mouse]

There is a Romanov family association, but they don't seem to have any interest in bringing back the imperial throne. It makes no sense anyway. The Russians themselves don't care.

I just Googled Prince Gustav and...that is just insane. Screw the estate. Just get married. The logic behind those family "laws" make no sense.

[Auroranorth]

I can see why Carina wouldn't want to marry Gustav. Being the modern equivalent of the Duchess of Windsor isn't exactly appealing, given that he'd lose the estate and the family fortune. There have been two previous cases and in both of them the wills were upheld and the men who made a non-dynastic marriage lost their claims.

[Lwaxana]

I googled as well and if he married her, the estate would go to his male cousin? But if he dies without an heir, it still goes to his male cousin, right? I don't see the issue.