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Post by chonies on Apr 25, 2015 21:42:44 GMT -4
On the shitty parenting thing, I wonder how common it is with a trans parent. On the show Transparent, the dad comes out as transgender late in life and transitions to a woman in his 60s (not unlike Bruce), and a theme running through the show is how often he was checked out from the kids because he was too busy dealing with his own issues and misery, and how that often negatively impacted his kids ( who are all fucked up to one degree or another). The creator of the show has a trans father, so I'm assuming it is heavily based on her own experience. Not an excuse, but a possible explanation. And it's good that he seems to have reconnected with his older kids and they have forgiven him and support him. He'll always be connected to Kris because of their daughters, but I suspect getting out of the Kardashian vortex can only be good for him. I was thinking about this, too. The ESPN doc on Renee Richards covered her complicated relationship with her son, and "checked out" is also a good way to describe it, as well as "distant" although in Richards' case, it was spun as a combination of checked out and psychologists' advice to present as a masculine dad, in addition to custody issues.
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Post by Martini Girl on Apr 25, 2015 21:48:47 GMT -4
The most shocking parts of this: 1) Kanye was helpful. It took my mom to inform me today that there are rumors Kanye is bi & has a male bf in Paris 2) The girls were all normal looking at one point 3) He is a conservative Republican. Delicious. And the most unshocking part: Kris made it all about her. God she sucks the energy out of a room. Bruce may have been an absentee parent, but as Gloria Steinem once said about her parents "They did they best they could with the tools they had". Maybe Bruce had a a modest Kenner tool box and just didn't know any better. I hope he and his children connect in a real way that's beneficial for all involved. I really hope that Bruce feels a peace of mind and is able to fully come to terms with his/her new life and finds a lot of support. Maybe, just maybe, folks will listen and accept transgender people for who they are, not what they want them to be. I hope E! doesn't f*ck this up. Good on Kanye. (Never thought I'd say that!) *Also agree on Linda Thompson's life. She's accomplished a lot, but is still defined almost solely by her relationships.
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Post by chonies on Apr 25, 2015 22:01:26 GMT -4
Bruce may have been an absentee parent, but as Gloria Steinem once said or her parents "They did they best they could with the tools they had". Maybe Bruce had a a modest Kenner tool box and just didn't know any better. I hope he and his children connect in a real way that's beneficial for all involved. I think what irks me about Bruce's parenting (as an internet gossip) is that he had *three* sets of children and seemed to make the same choices with all of them. Anecdata only, but what I've seen is that parents who have different sets of children have the benefit of learning from mistakes, and end up being more relaxed or experienced, or stricter, or somehow putting in a different effort. But in this case, he seems to have been really into the idea of marrying and having a model family (two children close together), and then ghosts out while the kids are still very young, except for still being physically present for Kylie and Kendall, which, cynically, may have been less about them and instead about other things. I feel kind of miserly writing that out, and I don't want to be a hater, but as others have said, there is a lot of money in the Kardashian empire. I also thought it was interesting that the obvious plastic surgery decades ago actually did have a back story--and the backstory that people perceived or subconsciously understood. Anyway, I wish him well in his transition, and I think this can have an amazing positive turn, but there's something about Bruce that chaps. What have trans* people have had to say about this, I wonder?
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codert
Blueblood
Posts: 1,176
Jun 14, 2005 16:09:51 GMT -4
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Post by codert on Apr 25, 2015 23:00:01 GMT -4
Very interesting read. At least now that he is open about being a woman he won't enter in to another relationship with a woman and reveal his truth after having a couple of kids. With the new show coming I feel there will be lots of family drama on it.
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Post by Coffeecakes on Apr 25, 2015 23:10:22 GMT -4
Bruce may have been an absentee parent, but as Gloria Steinem once said or her parents "They did they best they could with the tools they had". Maybe Bruce had a a modest Kenner tool box and just didn't know any better. I hope he and his children connect in a real way that's beneficial for all involved. I think what irks me about Bruce's parenting (as an internet gossip) is that he had *three* sets of children and seemed to make the same choices with all of them. Anecdata only, but what I've seen is that parents who have different sets of children have the benefit of learning from mistakes, or being more relaxed or experienced, or stricter. But in this case, he seems to have been really into the idea of marrying and having a model family (two children close together), and then ghosts out while the kids are still very young, except for still being physically present for Kylie and Kendall, which, cynically, may have been less about them and instead about other things. I feel kind of miserly writing that out, and I don't want to be a hater, but as others have said, there is a lot of money in the Kardashian empire. I agree. Its one thing if he had only the 1 set of kids, but he fucked up on all 3 so he can miss me with that boo hoo bullshit. Meanwhile his youngest is a hs drop out looking like a 25 yr old hooker and fucking a grown ass man with a child. He will finally be happy but is still a useless asshole like the rest of the Kardashians.
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tanyak
Blueblood
Posts: 1,797
Feb 26, 2007 1:29:22 GMT -4
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Post by tanyak on Apr 25, 2015 23:21:38 GMT -4
Yes. It's all well and good if his older kids have forgiven him, and Kendall seems to be doing well. But Kylie is melting down right before our eyes and no one seems to give a hoot.
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Post by chonies on Apr 25, 2015 23:37:53 GMT -4
Without a doubt, I also think that years of exposure to the Kardashian empire has affected how I'm reading this situation. For me, it's a variation on the endless parsings about various things--is Rob's assy behavior because he's depressed and discarded, or is he being ostracized because he's an ass? And so on. I think it's interesting that I can have such mixed feelings about the situation. Jenner hit the right tone in the interview between openness and advocacy, with a dash of atonement for hurting people, and I definitely wish for the best in the transition. Yet, the Kardashian thing has made it so easy to pry apart all the different elements to the narrative.
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Post by kostgard on Apr 26, 2015 1:00:59 GMT -4
I can see Bruce making the same choices through each marriage and batch of children, seeing as the root cause of what I'm guessing to many of his problems was never properly addressed, so he just kept repeating the same pattern, getting the "model" family someone in his position was expected to have and screwing it up because he was suffocating under all the lies he was living. When he was a competitive athlete, he could pour all his focus and energy into that, but once that went away, things must have gotten far more difficult.
The whole relationship with Kris seems weird and toxic and just all around a bad idea. I mean, he had gotten to the point where he had decided to transition, was taking female hormones, had plans for reassignment surgery. Then he decides he can't go through with it. His finances are hitting the skids. He must have been in a dark place. Then Kris comes along, she's also suffering financial problems, and I think they saw each other as a golden ticket. Kris revived his career, and she could ride his coat tails (until her daughter gets famous for filming herself donking her boyfriend and then Kris spun that into gold instead). I mean, even if she was madly in love with Bruce, why did she stay after he explained why he was sporting a 36 B rack when she clearly doesn't want to be with a trans woman? I don't think Bruce mentioned in the interview how detailed he got, but he did state that he clearly had breasts and had to explain it. If he told Kris he took female hormones and that he dressed as a woman, why didn't the "Um, I think he wants to be a lady and I want to be with a man" alarm bells go off? If I was dating a guy who told me he was taking female hormones I would go no further until I knew where he was at in his gender situation. Maybe she did and Bruce convincingly lied to her that everything was okay, but I still suspect they both found the relationship advantageous.
The most shocking part of the interview to me was when Bruce said he believed that if Kris were cool with the transition, they would still be married. Which...no. I barely know anything about the Kardashians and I can see that Kris really wasn't in to it, and fame/money was the most important thing over anything else. I think Bruce craved the spotlight too, but the Kardashians take it all to a new level.
I don't follow the Kardashians so I don't know what's going on with Kylie other than stupid teenagers bruise up their faces trying to imitate her lips, but I hope Brandon is correct in that they will get a better version of their dad after the transition. Bruce seemed relieved and free in he interview, especially in the segments that were filmed later, after he got the big announcement off his chest. Now that he's put that burden down, hopefully he can give more to his family. Though I don't know how much influence he can have on Kylie when she's got a mother who built an empire on her sister's sex tape.
ETA: Bruce's eldest, Burt, tweeted "Having a hard time not putting a few people on blast who were not supporters before hand, but want to act like they were all along." He doesn't say who, but I'm guessing the letter K is involved.
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codert
Blueblood
Posts: 1,176
Jun 14, 2005 16:09:51 GMT -4
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Post by codert on Apr 26, 2015 7:06:12 GMT -4
I hope all involved are going to get some therapy to help them deal with all the changes. There appear to be lots of residual childhood anger still present. I find that passive/aggressive tweet stuff annoying. It have something you want to say.......say it or zip it. I know that lots of people don't like Kris but I respect her direct tweet to Perez Hilton more than this. I do wonder if Burt's tweet is directed to toward his grandmother or aunt since the aunt has never seen "she/her."
Just like Cher had initial issues dealing with her child's transition I wouldn't find it odd that one of the ten children has an issue. I know if either of my parents told me they were transitioning I would need some therapy to help me adapt to a new normal. I think Wife #2 is able to be so rationale is because she had decades to think about it.
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Foo
Landed Gentry
Posts: 976
Mar 6, 2005 18:58:09 GMT -4
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Post by Foo on Apr 26, 2015 7:32:04 GMT -4
I heard that the beautiful and wonderful Laverne Cox has been encouraging (and that she and Bruce have been talking).
Whatever his issues with his kids and the whole Kardashian empire, I'm glad he seems to be doing ok and that he's open to being an activist for trans* causes. His visibility is very important.
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