Stephen Colbert

[Martini Girl]

I think what really opened my eyes was a comment Trevor Noah made during a commercial break on TDS earlier this year.

He said that as a society we're becoming way too rigid in our beliefs and like Kateln said, too black and white about important issues, without having all the facts at our disposal before mouthing off on social media. This was right after the Covington Catholic incident in DC. I had to admit that I was one of those people and it kind of horrified me. That's not who I want to be. I think it's always easier to see the black and white in another before we see it in ourselves. It was definitely a wake-up call for me.

I'm really trying to be mindful of how I interact with people-- both IRL and on message boards. It's a process, and I've stumbled a couple of times already.

My mother is a devout Catholic too, and she's also pro-choice. Unless Stephen starts using his talk show to tell women to keep their knees together to prevent rape or starts praising Hannity, Huckabee, Carlson, or Beck (to name, but a few) for their moral superiority, he'll be alright in my book.

But as long as he remains the nerdy and clever guy with a take-no-prisoners view of the state of our country, I'll continue my girl crush.

[Ginger]

I don't mean to harp on abortion because like I said, I have no idea what Colbert believes on that topic and I don't care. I liked that Seinfeld episode because it was really about Elaine having such a hard-line view that one sentence about it from a boyfriend she was totally crazy about meant she had to dump him immediately. Or she had to storm out of a great restaurant if the owner was anti-abortion. It was Elaine's 1992 version of cancellation.

But I have to point out, those of you who have responded have basically said you are cool with Colbert exactly as he expresses himself right now. Which is to say that you are cool with his hypothetical differing opinion because he keeps quiet about it. And my point was - what if he stops doing that? It could very well happen.

Jon Stewart was everybody's hero for a long time until he said one or two things in his retirement that people didn't like, and I feel like a lot of those disillusioned fans then decided to focus 100% of their idealized hero-worship onto Colbert instead. Which means Colbert is ripe for the same type of fall.

[Martini Girl]

And what I'm getting from your comments is that you're gearing up for a fight that may never come.

I think you're twisting my words to suit your narrative.

I haven't agreed with everything Jon's said, but I never thought about canceling him. He was never on a pedestal for me, though I loved his tirades against Fox News, and although Stephen is a celebrity crush, I don't have him on a pedestal either. Stephen's been in the spotlight for 20 years and has never given me any indication that's he's some religious zealot-- despite being very upfront about how much his religion means to him.

Are you trying to imply he's a secret Tom Cruise or Mel Gibson, and his people have just done an excellent job of keeping the lid on the crazy, and it's only a matter of time before he says something so outrageously offensive that I'd suddenly hate him? I guess in the world of hypotheticals, it's possible, but it doesn't seem probable. I've been pretty good at reading people, and he seems like a decent guy. Not perfect, but a good person. That's enough for me.

[Ginger]

Martini Girl, I didn't have you or your posts in mind at all when I wrote my previous post.

I like Stephen Colbert and think he's a good guy. I also like Jon Stewart and think he's a good guy, but it seems whenever I read about him recently on the internet, the torches are being wielded because at a Q&A one time he gave an answer about Louis CK that struck some people as flippant. That and some other interview where he didn't say exactly what people wanted him to say about Trump was all it took for many people to turn on him. I think overly high expectations and idealization lead to that.

I hardly said that I think Stephen Colbert is hiding that he's a crazy zealot.

[deeconsistent]

Do people even really get cancelled, though? I mean, sure people say "cancelled" all the time, but does it ever really happen because a celebrity says something that wasn't pc enough? A major, major pr disaster can torpedo a career, but even that usually has to coincide with a lull in how well their career is doing. Just a few days ago, my boyfriend reminded me that the only thing he knew about Ariana Grande for a looong time was that she wished her fans would die and she licked a donut, and it's so weird how she morphed into the feminist soul queen of positivity in such a short period of time. When someone says they "cancelled" a celebrity, what I usually hear is "At this time, I feel indifferent enough about their work to disavow any positive feelings towards them, but I reserve the right revisit this opinion if they release something that interests me. Or if I forget why I don't like them...whichever comes first."

[Martini Girl]

Ginger-- I think I remember Kaiser/Chandra at Celebitchy having one of those meltdowns, and I take her with a grain of salt.

But to your point, I had a roommate who loved LOST. It's actually one of the reasons I think I ended up living with him. But he went way overboard in his obsession, and held LOST viewing parties, and had LOST themed birthday parties etc. He HATED the finale and ended up burning/throwing away all of his LOST memorabilia.He ranted and raved on how the creators owed him (exactly what, I don't know), and he could not let his hatred go. Now I also loved LOST and didn't particularly love the finale, but it was what it was, and at the end of the day it was a TV show. My take away was that I spent god knows how many hours going down the rabbit hole on websites trying to decipher what it all meant, and after LOST I decided I'd never do that again, and I haven't. My point-- some people are really rigid in their beliefs and it's 'all or nothing', and I feel they have extreme reactions to being let down, and it's just not my jam.

Deeconsistent-- I've canceled Mel Gibson, and Bill Clinton (for different reasons). At one time I thought Mel was the most beautiful man in the world, but his hateful soul disgusts me. I don't want anything to do with him, and it's really hard for me to watch any of his earlier films. The asshole gets in the way, and life's too short.

As for Clinton, I don't think I'll ever forgive him for kneecapping Al Gore, or the way he treated Obama. I'm also less than impressed with his legacy as President. He was for Doma and his policies helped bring about the financial crisis in 2008/09. I also think he raped women. It's probably an unpopular opinion, but it's one that I've had for a really long time, and I don't see me changing my mind anytime soon.

As to your example, I remember Ariana's antics and I thought she was an entitled snot, but people evolve, and my feelings towards her changed too. I was impressed by the way she handled Manchester. I'm still pretty tepid on her overall though (but I did side-eye her for the whole Pete Davidson drama). I also like some of her songs.

I think this is the way I respond to most celebs though.

[Mutagen]

Apr 6, 2019 16:07:46 GMT -4 Martini Girl said:

I don't get this whole notion of canceling people because they say or do something that upsets you. I think there's a sliding scale of human decency, and I'm astonished by how easily some 20-30-somethings cancel people.

I got into it with a 25-year-old who wanted Gandhi and MLK canceled because they said/did some problematic things. Well, they were complex men for sure, and I'm incredibly disappointed by their treatment of women. But I also respect what their legacy is regarding civil rights and bringing non-violence to the forefront of political movements. Our country would be very different without their vision and leadership. If you go around canceling everyone who disappoints you, there will be no one left. (JMO)

People are complex, and no one is ever going to tick off all your boxes.

I feel in the age of social media we're way too quick to judge people we don't even really know, and I find it troubling, to say the least.

Back on topic. I love Stephen, and also had a moment of "why is his thread at the top of celebrities?"

I find "cancel culture" aggravating because it's so damn inconsistent. The site ONTD has come a long way from when the comments were a total cesspool, but it's still super common to see female celebrities get "canceled" while the hot white dude of the week who commits an equivalent offense is "confused" or "learning." The thing is, we're ALL inconsistent. I like some people who would probably fail the "problematic" test. We all judge our favorites less harshly. I think that's something we all just need to learn to be okay with up to a certain point (obviously if it's into Weinstein/R Kelly territory that's a different story). But I also accept that others might draw the line in a different place, and that's okay too. 

As far as Colbert goes. As an ex-Catholic myself, I can't say that's in the plus column for me. But he seems thoughtful about what he actually expresses and that's okay with me. A bit more pragmatically, I also think it's important to have criticisms of the right wing coming from a religious perspective. I'm exhausted by the stereotype that the more religiously conservative you are, the more moral you are. If Christians want to assert their faith as a matter of law, the rest of us should be able to challenge how in line with Jesus' teachings their ideas and behaviors actually are. I like that Colbert is able to offer those criticisms "from the inside", so to speak.

[laurenj]

Apr 7, 2019 21:36:57 GMT -4 deeconsistent said:

Do people even really get cancelled, though? I mean, sure people say "cancelled" all the time, but does it ever really happen because a celebrity says something that wasn't pc enough? A major, major pr disaster can torpedo a career, but even that usually has to coincide with a lull in how well their career is doing. Just a few days ago, my boyfriend reminded me that the only thing he knew about Ariana Grande for a looong time was that she wished her fans would die and she licked a donut, and it's so weird how she morphed into the feminist soul queen of positivity in such a short period of time. When someone says they "cancelled" a celebrity, what I usually hear is "At this time, I feel indifferent enough about their work to disavow any positive feelings towards them, but I reserve the right revisit this opinion if they release something that interests me. Or if I forget why I don't like them...whichever comes first."

I think the Dixie Chicks are a prime example of getting "cancelled." They were on top of the world, one of the most successful country acts ever, on the radio constantly, they made that one comment (which, IMO, was pretty mild and 2-3 years later, would have probably been a fairly popular opinion) and boom, career over.

They had one minor hit after that and perhaps they're still out there touring, but they went from A-list to D-list overnight and never recovered.

I like Stephen Colbert and think he's a good guy. I also like Jon Stewart and think he's a good guy, but it seems whenever I read about him recently on the internet, the torches are being wielded because at a Q&A one time he gave an answer about Louis CK that struck some people as flippant. That and some other interview where he didn't say exactly what people wanted him to say about Trump was all it took for many people to turn on him. I think overly high expectations and idealization lead to that

That's true. I think especially with people like Stewart and Colbert, whose political ideology is something that people are quite passionately following, it ends up feeling like a betrayal if they say something that doesn't align with the viewer's own belief. It typically says something more about the level of investment on the part of the viewer than it does about the men themselves.

[deeconsistent]

Apr 8, 2019 9:02:57 GMT -4 laurenj said:

I think the Dixie Chicks are a prime example of getting "cancelled." They were on top of the world, one of the most successful country acts ever, on the radio constantly, they made that one comment (which, IMO, was pretty mild and 2-3 years later, would have probably been a fairly popular opinion) and boom, career over.

They had one minor hit after that and perhaps they're still out there touring, but they went from A-list to D-list overnight and never recovered.

I was actually specifically talking about cancelling in the social media age - the age in which people define their feelings towards a celebrity with the word "cancel". What I was getting at is that the rise of cancel culture and the overreaction to celebrity missteps has been accompanied by a rise in tolerance for celebrity bs.

I look at how Mel Gibson sunk his career and wonder if it would happen the same way today. I honestly don't think so. I think there would be a lot more talk about how he wasn't himself because he was drunk and I think there would be a lot more debate over whether or not what he said was actually racist. I think it would have been a big story that people moved on from fairly quickly, to the point where he might not even have to address it if he waited 6 or 7 weeks before doing an interview.

I think one recent parallel was what happened to Roseanne. You can look at that situation and say it's an example of someone getting cancelled by the public, but I would debate that. People were actually surprised that it was handled so quickly and dramatically. In some quarters, it was a pretty controversial decision. She had said similarly awful stuff multiple times. I think if they had dragged their feet and stalled a decision for two or three weeks, the public furor would have died down almost completely.(I've read that the quick decision played into Channing Dungey's exit from ABC a few months later.) She wasn't cancelled by the public. She was fired from a family-friendly network after multiple infractions in a move that might have been looked down upon by the powers-that-be at the network.

Another recent parallel is what happened with Kevin Hart. He got so much heat for his homophobia that he was fired from his gig hosting the Oscars. But he also had a movie opening at the same time. The movie turned out to be one of his most profitable projects ever. The Youtube algorithm has been suggesting his web series to me since the new season started a few weeks ago and the guests seem to be much higher profile than they were in previous seasons. The point being that when Kevin was fired, it wasn't really a reflection of public sentiment, it was the producers gauging public sentiment the best they could. His career seems to be at a high point right now.


Martini Girl, your description of your feelings towards Ariana Grande are pretty much what I was talking about.

[seat6]

The thing about the Dixie Chicks being cancelled is that it seems that some of it was motivated by the fandom, but some of it seems to have been organized (by DJs asking people to bring their CDs to public bonfires, etc.). It was also deeply tinged by misogyny. I think they are an extreme example of cancellation because most people I knew were still fans and agreed with them or thought they were free to speak their minds. I guess the people who turned on them felt more passionately than those who still enjoyed them. It seems like there was something...inorganic about their fall, as if they had enemies in the industry who were looking for a chance to bring them down. That doesn't really make a lot of sense though, because they were making a lot of money for a lot of people. There was a lot of gleeful spitefulness about their demise. I always assumed they would make a comeback, until I heard a very reasonable classmate talking about how sad he was that they were completely over. (And look at the state of country music today for women: Country Music Excludes Women, Especially Over Age 40, Study Finds. Let's bring the Dixie Chicks back! I think they still have something valid to contribute!).

I guess I don't want to be deeply disappointed by someone I don't know, so I don't get super invested in the first place. It means I've never participated in a fandom and I may be missing out on some of the community that goes along with it, but I'm also still not mad at Joss for Buffy and Spike. There are some people I've cancelled and I'd assume that most of the people on this board avoid them as well: Bill Cosby, Woody Allen, R. Kelly, people like that.

There are very few people in the public eye whom I appreciate more the more I hear from them, and Stephen Colbert is one of those people. Add Pete Buttigieg to that list as well!