"Y'All Jus' Jellus!" The Scary World of Fandom

[ElleCee]

I don't have an account on TikTok but I scroll through videos randomly to avoid the FYP algorithm. For some reason the last few days have been insanely heavy with One Direction, Harry Styles and Larry Stylinson videos. I mean insanely heavy. I missed the whole 1D phenomenon when they came out but I'm getting my education on them now whether I want it or not and now I know all their names when prior to this I had no clue who they were. I don't know if there's something happening in the fandom right now or if new albums are dropping soon. The Larry conspiracy theories abound and remind me of my Spike/Buffy obsession back in the day.

[jmc]

Fans have to be told not to come to the funeral of anime and video game voice actor Billy Kametz.

Fans of these lesser known actors who work on shows with small followings seem to be more intense than normal. It's like the more likely an actor will see and respond to random tweets, the crazier that fans are.

[Auroranorth]

I think people who are like this are drawn to the actors who respond to them personally. It's a whole in-group thing, where they are the ones who "discovered" So-And-So and they feel like Actor belongs to them and their cronies. And actors who respond to them make them feel even more in-group.

[technicolor]

Since I'm not sure where to put this and didn't want to clog up a more immediate thread for it, I'll rescucitate this one for my ramblings. Sorry!

In the last few years, starting with the pandemic, I've been really getting into a lot of music, also of older and dead artists. If you have a passing knowledge of popular music history, you probably know that almost all of them are what the kids would call problematic. And the way cancel culture works or doesn't work and how the discussions surrounding that in some online spaces might contribute to nothing constructive getting done in this era have been interesting.

Take Prince and David Bowie. They're examples of this because that's where my interest is, you could pick random other legends with, erm, baggage as well. Like there is anger that they weren't cancelled afther their death. I'm more familiar with the discourse on Bowie because it happens in proportionally whiter online spaces that I have more knowledge of, showing my own biases here, of course. Though I've seen discussions how Steven Tyler's trial and guardianship of a minor differs and also uncomfortably parallels Prince's relationship with his ex-wife Mayte and his focus on very young girls in general.

Bowie possibly sleeping with underage groupies in the early 70ies was known before his death, but got some play again after his passing. The public reaction was basically: "There's no way to verify anymore. It could have happened, we won't ever know. He's too dead to defend himself, it won't be the main focus of his legacy." Books I've read on him that have come out recently basically present the account of Lori Mattix in acknowledgement and don't comment on it much, since there's no way to prove anything anymore.

The discussions in places like reddit, twitter etc. (I know, but bear with me...) often escalate into: "Why isn't he cancelled like Bill Cosby or Roman Polanski or R. Kelly!" Attempts to point out that there are major differences like no trial, no conviction, no way to verify events even get rebuffed as apologism. And that is without wading into the whole area how Mattix characterizes sex with Bowie and if it is a good thing to impose a narrative of trauma on her that she hasn't claimed (this parallels Mayte and Prince and makes one of the major differences with Steven Tyler, as uncomfortable as that is as well). And then the usual QAnon and Daily Mail shit of coming up with totally undocumented/fictional claims, or adding things that are documented to have happend with other musicians to "strengthen" the case.

And in my view this is part of why so much goes unexamined for the music industry. There's no proper language for that whole baby groupie phenomenon and what happend with Bowie and Prince and I'm sure others after their death will keep on happening because it's not like Bill Cosby, it's not like R. Kelly, it's not like Roman Polanski. It's a grey area where underage girls sought out these musicians and the musicians took advantage even though they shouldn't have. Many of these women to this day also reject to call what happened rape or assault. And I know this is very difficult to talk about from the vantage point of 2023. "It was a different time" also doesn't absolve these musicians from responsibility at all. But I think part of why cancellation hasn't happend is that the general public (beyond not caring and just liking the content, I know) also rejects the framing of "this was all the same as those convicted rapists with multiple victims on record." Since it is different and we don't know how to talk about it still.

I see this as staying a problem as a whole generation of musicians will start dying off who have the same biographies (all the Stones, Led Zeppelin, Iggy Pop, The Who etc). And it will be the same dilemma of calls for cancellations which will not happen and anger in the aftermath. If cancellation even is the most constructive way to go forward on the topic. Some sort of better language and discussion of that whole cultural context of the 60ies to 80ies (and till today but quieter, probably...) would go a long way to grapple with all of this.

I don't know. It's just been on my mind. I've also loved Bob Dylan's music since I was a child and never had much of an illusion about him and what an asshole he is and those domestic abuse allegations by his wife in the 70ies etc. And that whole discourse just strikes me as very reductive, you won't stop people from loving the music. And getting them to acknowledge that their fave is problematic might be easier if you're correctly presenting what their faultlines are and don't argue in bad faith that it's all the same.