hillbillylover
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:52 GMT -4
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Post by hillbillylover on Nov 12, 2005 18:43:01 GMT -4
Actually, a growing number of people in America agree with you.
But race and racial identification is a sensitive subject in America. It's disturbing to contemplate, but originally, the "one drop rule" in America was used to increase the number of people that would fall into the slave population and to prevent people who could "pass" for white from "contaminating" the white gene pool.
In the 100 years following Reconstruction, African Americans endured so much blatant and unrelenting racial oppression that many black people internalized the accepted belief that being black was the worst possible thing you could be and that being less black made you somehow "better."
During the Black Power and Black Pride movements of the 1960's, African Americans were encouraged to unambiguously embrace their African heritage as something to be proud of and those who were reluctant to do so - for whatever reasons - were assumed to be self-hating wanna-bes or ingrates who were rejecting the one community that was always willing to fully accept them.
Fair or not, many people who identify as mixed are looked at with suspicion by some in the black community (especially if both their parents identify as black).
Just as many gay people get annoyed with people like Tom Cruise because their vigorous denials about being gay imply that there is something wrong with being gay, some African Americans feel that people with black heritage who are seen as too anxious to identify as anything other than black, end up implying that there is something wrong with being "just" black.
Don't get me wrong. I am not in anyway condoning such attitudes. Just trying to explain them.
The great irony of all this is that as rags said, practically all African Americans are mixed to some degree. But do we really want to break down every black person's racial makeup into percentages, (as if that were possible anyway)? That kind of thing hasn't worked so well in Brazil and has helped enforce a sort of racial cast system that doesn't get that country any closer to a "colorblind" society that everyone claims to want.
That's why I think racial identification should be an individual matter. But there seems to be a growing amount of coersion coming from both sides. There are people who push everyone to identify as black and people who push for everyone to identify as mixed. Shouldn't that be left up to the person themselves?
Anyway, back OT. Isn't Phoebe Cates part Chinese?
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celerydunk
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,521
May 3, 2005 21:57:59 GMT -4
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Post by celerydunk on Nov 12, 2005 21:37:05 GMT -4
I have only seen this with the older generation. Im in my thirties and have never heard this from anyone under the age of about 60. I am half white/half black and grew up in the north, but live in the south now.
Its interesting how different others perceptions are.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2005 0:43:30 GMT -4
Anyway, back OT. Isn't Phoebe Cates part Chinese? I believe her mother is Filipina of Spanish-Chinese ancestry.
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hillbillylover
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by hillbillylover on Nov 13, 2005 1:49:43 GMT -4
Count yourself lucky. I mean that sincerely. I wish I could say that I've heard it only from older people. But that is not the case.
You can say that again.
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soul
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by soul on Nov 14, 2005 2:29:43 GMT -4
Well, I said that, but anyway, your post was well stated.
Regarding what to call folks of mixed heritage, who took more on the dominant gene side:
No matter what people say, I think Chris Rock said it right in a nutshell. If some mixed person were to commit a crime, and someone had to describe him, there is no way in hell, they will say, "It was the quarter Indian, Chinese, and half black man."
They would be lucky if they called them black, because something derogatory could easily follow, if they got mugged by them. l
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hillbillylover
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by hillbillylover on Nov 16, 2005 0:42:45 GMT -4
Oops, sorry soul.
Btw, Barack Obama made remarks that were similar to Chris Rock's.
When asked by a journalist why he doesn't refer to himself as biracial, he said that if he was to be arrested for armed robbery, there would be no debate or interest from anyone about his racial makeup. He'd be just another black criminal.
The underlying selectiveness in such attitudes bothers him.
In other words, you get to be multiracial only if you are deemed a "desirable." Otherwise, you're just black.
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soul
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by soul on Nov 16, 2005 2:14:04 GMT -4
Ain't that the truth. Oh, when did this Barack Obama make the comment? I'm just curious as to who said it first.
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raqs
Landed Gentry
Posts: 998
Mar 7, 2005 10:04:25 GMT -4
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Post by raqs on Nov 16, 2005 9:56:30 GMT -4
Actually hillbillylover, what I said was that in the islands (ie: the West Indies) racial mixing is common. It was Soul who mentioned "most black folks have a mixture of some kind".
While I agree that this is how he would be profiled in the U.S., that doesn't negate the fact he is bi-racial and would probably be identified as such in some other countries.
Ideally, yes.
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Metizia
Landed Gentry
Heartbroken
Posts: 820
Mar 20, 2005 13:52:00 GMT -4
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Post by Metizia on Nov 16, 2005 13:51:30 GMT -4
Everyone has a mixture of some kind no matter where you are from.
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nursetrix
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Oct 5, 2024 2:38:53 GMT -4
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Post by nursetrix on Nov 16, 2005 22:52:12 GMT -4
Very true. Maybe it comes down to the visibilty factor? It's also interesting the way labels are applied to identify people without necessarily considering how they wish to identify themselves. Apart from the mixed/black angle, I take issue with the "politically correct" term of african-american, especially since it seems to have jumped borders from the US to many other places, and is being used to describe people who are neither American nor consider themselves to be of African heritage. Not every (and I would argue relatively few) people of Carribean ancestry feel an intrinsic connection to Africa, and in fact to assume that every dark-skinned individual we see is a descendant of Africans rather than of Carribean aboriginals (for lack of a better term atm) is a disservice. Admittedly, many of the native peoples of the Carribean were killled off and hence left no descendants but not all! Is it simply a catch-all phrase to describe anyone with dark skin? Perhaps terms like Jamaican-Canadian, Bajan-British, or Guayanese-French would be more accurate to describe people of those backgrounds living in those places. Or how about we avoid presuming at all and simply allow people to self-identify in the way that they wish. Boy, we've gotten way off topic, haven't we?
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