True Crime

[Deleted]

luciano said:

Changing subjects: Japan had a cannibal killer named Issei Sagawa who ate this Dutch woman and described it really grossly. It took a while before I could go back to eating tuna and creamy corn is now something that I will never touch. The reaction to his crimes was weird, though - dude wrote restaurant reviews and was a guest speaker in various places due to his crime. Yep, free guy. Just walking the streets like nothin' after he checked his own ass out of a mental institution.

And if I'm not mistaken, wasn't he featured in porn that was capitalizing on his notoriety? Yeah, his crime essentially made him a pop-culture celebrity. (And his victim was a woman who just had the misfortune of becoming his object of obsession - he basically stalked and killed her and ate her so she would always be with him. Adorable, no?)

[Deleted]

See, I find this really interesting, because I hadn't heard of this case till I read this thread and I did a quick Google search and read the Crime Library entry on this. They seem totally convinced of his innocence. What does this book, or other sources you've seen, say that makes you think he's guilty?

Um. It occurs to me that this sounds like I am demanding explanations for your opinion, which is totally not my intention - I sincerely am really interested to hear a different perspective, since this is all new to me, and the Crime Library entry is fairly one-sided.

Heh. Didn't sound like you were demanding an explanation at all, roobarb! I haven't read the Crime Library entry on Jeffrey MacDonald, but why I think he's guilty: the crime scene—and his explanation of it—were near identical to the narrative of the Manson murders, I believe "Pigs" was even found at the scene, written in blood. I don't believe "hippies" on LSD came into his house saying "Acid is groovy," then slaughtered all the girls there and only left him with a serious, but not fatal, wound that could easily be fixed in surgery. He tried to blame it all on some local woman named Helena Stoeckley—and continues to maintain that defense to this day. (Which I think is complete b.s.) I think he was a philandering slob who got tired of his family and, instead of getting divorced, killed all of them, therefore ensuring he'd keep his money and have no further ties to a life he no longer felt like living. He's not an innocent man; I think he's a sociopath on par with Bundy. Good looking—and without a conscience.

Here's his Wiki entry.

Sorta related: the author of Fatal Vision, Joe McGinniss, wrote another true crime book about Robert Marshall, a New Jersey man who murdered his wife. Tracey Gold (from "Growing Pains") married Robert Marshall's son, Roby who, at some point or other, was rumored to be pretty abusive to her. (I just read this morning she's pregnant with her fourth child from him!)

[Benni]

One of the saddest cases in Canadian History is called The Butter Box Babies. I copy and pasted this from one site and have included some links. There has been a movie made about this that I cried throughout.

The Ideal Maternity Home is infamous for the Butterbox Babies
What was discovered later was that the Youngs would purposely starve "unmarketable" babies to death by feeding them only molasses and water. On this diet the infants would usually last only two weeks. Any deformity, a serious illness or "dark" coloration would often seal their fate. Babies who died were disposed of in small wooden grocery boxes, typically used for dairy products. Thus the term Butterbox Babies is used to refer to these unfortunate infants. The Butterbox Babies bodies were buried on the property, adjacent to a nearby cemetery, at sea or sometimes burned in the homes furnace. In some cases married couples who had come to the home solely for birthing services were told that their baby had died shortly after birth. In truth these babies were also sold to adoptive parents. The Youngs would also separate or create siblings to meet the desires of customers. It is estimated that between four and six hundred babies died at the home, while at least another thousand survived and were adopted. Even these lucky survivors often suffered from ailments caused by the unsanitary conditions and lack of care at the home.

link[/color]

[scarlet]

I'll just echo LittleEdie (I didn't think you were demanding, either, roobarb) for the reasons why I think he's guilty. Colette and the daughters were stabbed 95 times between the three of them...and he had one small, perfect incision in his chest.

[discoprincess]

benni said:

One of the saddest cases in Canadian History is called The Butter Box Babies. I copy and pasted this from one site and have included some links. There has been a movie made about this that I cried throughout.

I want to cry just from reading the tale. I haven't brought myself to click on your link yet.

[roobarb]

LittleEdieBeale and scarlet, thanks for the info! Yeah, I don't feel like any of that was clear from the Crime Library pages. There's much more (slightly disturbing) reading to be done on my part, it seems.

This just after I read the Crime Library entry on John Wayne Gacy. A fun new obssession is born.

[Sukie]

Speaking of John Wayne Gacy, for some reason, my parents allowed me to read a biography of his at a very young age ( I think I was 11). My Dad always had true crime books around the house and I was an avid reader. I would pick up almost anything and read it. I also started reading Stephen King around this time. It is a wonder I turned out half as normal as I am!

Anyways, topic, the JWG book scared me, but I figured I was safe since he was all about the boys. Then I read, The Stranger Beside Me about Ted Bundy and it freaked me out! Ann Rule rules (hee!) when it comes to the true crime genre. I have read a bunch of her books and she always does a really good job telling the stories.

How about The Zodiac Killer? This one fascinates me because he was never caught. Also, growing up in the SF Bay Area, he was legendary.

[sugaree]

peggylane said:

Isn't Marybeth Tinnings the same woman? She hid it at first with the different doctors thing, but then her husband insisted they see a specialist who came up with the SIDS gene thing, but when the adopted baby began being rushed to the hospital and then died suspicion really began to rise?

Possibly. I was just checking since the ages and number of children were a little different, and God knows Marybeth wasn't the only woman to find herself enamored of pregnancy and birth, but not of motherhood.

What would have happened if Vera Renczi met Béla Kiss?

[celerydunk]

I think Jeff McDonald is guilty. The same people who went into a sleeping toddlers bedroom and stabbed her to death only left him with minor wounds (only one wound was barely on the border of being life threatening)? The 5 year old's skull was fractured, her nose was broken, her jaw was fractured. And they let him - the one who would be able to identify them - live?

Reading the brutality of what was done to those children is heartbreaking.

Sorta related: the author of Fatal Vision, Joe McGinniss, wrote another true crime book about Robert Marshall, a New Jersey man who murdered his wife. Tracey Gold (from "Growing Pains") married Robert Marshall's son, Roby who, at some point or other, was rumored to be pretty abusive to her. (I just read this morning she's pregnant with her fourth child from him!)

I never heard that. Interesting.

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mugsy said:

There was one about a woman who had about 5 or 6 babies die of SIDS. One of her biggest supporter was doctor doing SIDS research, and based mostly on her case, he determined that SIDS had a hereditary factor. This sent parents of SIDS babies into a panic if they had another baby, and many of those babies were put on special breathing monitors for their first year (friends of ours included).
Turns out, of course, that this mother was suffocating her children - they were anywhere from a couple months to almost 2 years old - because she liked the attention she got. Apparently the first death was actually SIDS and that's when she got "hooked" on sympathy. Ugh.

Is this the Marie Noe case?