True Crime

[Deleted]

borokat said:

In the Borokat family, all of my cousins would crowd around Dad as he would tell a nice story about the guy who was fed into a woodchipper (yes, it really does happen!). Ah, good times.

Why was the thread made for only pre-90s cases?

Borokat, that sounds to me like the PERFECT family gathering!

[sugaree]

shriekingeel said:

He tried to blame it all on some local woman named Helena Stoeckley—and continues to maintain that defense to this day.

I never knew that about the McDonald case, because I only followed it casually. I always thought he blamed it on the "bushy-headed stranger," which is almost a True Crime subcategory of its own.

He said that four hippies came in and did it--two white males, one black male, and a white female who chanted "Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs." I can't remember how many of the men had bushy hair, but I'm sure at least one was described as such. The white female was later identified as local junkie Helena Stoeckley. Stoeckley is said to have confessed to the crime, but she's also said to have been delusional and mentally fragile. She's dead now from liver disease.

I think Macdonald's guilty. I don't think the entire act was premeditated--the first killing or serious injury was done in a fit of rage, after which he realized that he had to cover his ass. He killed his family, popped his lung (he was a doctor), and mindful of the Tate-LoBianca murders done by Charlie Manson's followers the year before, made up the tale of a home invasion done by hippies. Hippies on acid. Crazy, drugged-up Helena Steockley makes a convenient scapegoat.

[celerydunk]

Stoeckley is said to have confessed to the crime, but she's also said to have been delusional and mentally fragile. She's dead now from liver disease

If I remember correctly, her initial confession had the details wrong. As she was interviewed more and more (especially be the press) her story became more accurate.

I agree with the theory that him and his wife got into a fight which quickly escalated. The 5 year old came in the room and was hit (maybe accidentally initially) and thats when things turned deadly. The theory also is that while the older child was being killed Collette (the wife) went into the younger girls room and threw herself over the sleeping child to protect her.

[scarlet]

The 48 Hours Mystery special from a couple of years ago has a lot of the details and a few videos up.

MacDonald says he remembers seeing four people, including two white men, a black man and what he thinks was a blonde woman wearing a floppy hat.

“I heard a female voice say, ‘Acid is groovy, kill the pigs.’ I heard that several times,” says MacDonald. “There became a moment in time where all I was doing was fending off blows with both my hands wrapped up in my pajama top. I suddenly had a chest pain. The right side of my chest hurt.”

MacDonald had been stabbed in the center of his chest with an ice pick, puncturing his skin and the layers below.

But the attack on his family was considerably more vicious as revealed by their autopsies. Colette suffered two broken arms, a fractured skull and was stabbed more than 30 times. Five-year-old Kimberley’s skull, jaw and nose were badly broken and her throat was severely cut. And Kristen, just 2½ years old, was stabbed repeatedly in her chest and back.

It's been years since I read the book (and this conversation is making me want to pick it up again) but I believe Helena Stoeckley confessed, rescinded, re-confessed, got facts wrong so many times that she was deemed totally unreliable. I think there was a theory in the book that MacDonald knew her (at least in a vague sort of way) through some drug connection (again, it was theorized that MacDonald took speed to get him through his medical training and somehow came in contact with some of the local hippies who came to him for pills).

[Sunnyhorse]

It's been posited that Jack the Ripper was a man who was, for a time, a St. Louisan. (A magazine I used to copyedit ran a great feature by the author of the book -- we were able to beat his prose into presentable shape -- but unfortunately it's not in the online archive, so I couldn't share it with you all.)

BoroKat, can I come to the next family gathering where Dad B will be telling stories?

[Deleted]

Regarding Jeffrey Macdonald, this site has a lot of info, including original documents and photos. The autopsy photos in comparison to photos of Macdonald's injuries from that night leave no doubt that his story is BS.

[Mugsy]

Yes, the SIDS-claiming killer mom is Waneta Hoyt. Good job, spordelia. Interesting, the other two mentioned - Marybeth Tinnings and Marie Noe (?) - at least one of those was found innocent for a time because of the Hoyt case. "It's genetic, people, she couldn't have done it, doctors have done studies."

Fascinating how one case of misread evidence can have such far-reaching effects.

How about the Steven Truscott case? In 1959, a 14-year-old boy was found guilty of raping and murdering a 12-year-old classmate, sentenced to death, but commuted to life in prison. Released after 10 years, but always claimed innocence. With the dawn of DNA testing, his case came to the forefront, but evidence was gone/not usable for testing. However, a couple months ago he was finally declared innocent.

I read the Julian Sher book about his case, and even his jail mates thought he was innocent. A good deal of his alleged guilt* hinged on the dead girl's stomach contents. The coroner declared that, based on digestion, she had to have died within a very small time frame, the exact time he was giving her a ride on his bike. Later, stomach contents evidence was shown to have much greater variation, but it was too late for Truscott.
*The rest of his conviction was because of the investigating cop's obsessive notion that Truscott was the killer, and they ignored any evidence that didn't jive with their theory. I always wonder why cops do that? Don't they want to find the real killer, not just any convicted person to satisfy the public?

The worst part about wrongful convictions is that the real killer got away with it, and who knows how many others he (she) harmed.

[monkey]

Ooh, I remember reading an article about Waneta Hoyt in an old Reader's Digest, maybe 10 years ago.

That's all I have. I need to do some more true-crime reading.

[Shanmac]

Yes, the SIDS-claiming killer mom is Waneta Hoyt.

I think that's actually who I was thinking of, too.

Yeah, I think Macdonald is guilty as sin. And a moron, too, because it was ridiculous the way he stole his version of events from the Tate/LaBianca murders. Oh, and the small wound he gave himself. I think he and his wife fought; the little girl got hurt in the midst of the melee, so he had to finish her -- and the rest of his family -- off. Sicko.

I'd also love to come to Thanksgiving and listen to Daddy BoroKat's stories.

[Deleted]

My mom tried to get him to write a book for YEARS, maybe when he retires. When I was in grade school, we went up to visit him at his office (this was back when he was a DA's investigator) and he had one of those round slide show doohickeys on his desk. I picked up one of the slides and looked at it- it was a picture of a dead woman lying on the floor after being stabbed to death. Last time I did that!

I have alot of wiki-ing to do because I don't recognize alot of these people's names. Although I watched a show on John Wayne Gacy on A&E a few months ago, and it was like 10am but I was still freaked the hell out.