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Post by chonies on Apr 14, 2014 8:13:33 GMT -4
Speaking strictly as one who had crap grades in English in college, AND someone who routinely blames Texas for the questionable content of my daughter's 1st grade homework questions, I think the "to..." option is right in both cases. I will, however, defer to anyone with a degree. "Trying snowboarding" bugs be the same way that "a honor" does, and I don't care if it's correct technically. That's my gripe--I don't have a strong argument for why the right choice is correcter [heh] than the wronglier choice, and in each I would have choosified the incorrect example, especially in the latter.
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Post by ratscabies on Apr 14, 2014 9:49:44 GMT -4
This is shaking my world view, btw.
For the last few months, when I am faced with a dilemma, i say to myself, "Must trust Chonies!" And try and imagine what my creepy internet idea of you would do.
But now, if Chonies doesn't trust HERSELF...?
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Gigiree
Sloane Ranger
Procrastinators Unite. . . Tomorrow.
Posts: 2,554
Jul 23, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -4
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Post by Gigiree on Apr 14, 2014 10:01:38 GMT -4
Grammar question! This question is on a test I just gave to my students. Which is correct? Hugo was trying to snowboard/snowboarding for the first time when he broke his leg. The book says snowboarding is correct, but I'm not sure that's strictly correct, or at least that 'to snowboard' is wrong. Thoughts? ETA: Argh! Just discovered another: It is uncomfortable to live/living in a hot climate without air conditioning. The book says to live is the correct choice but that doesn't sound right, either. My feelings on this example are stronger than on the above. Sentence 1: In the above sentence, if you used "to snowboard" it would function as a prepositional phrase modifying the verb phrase "was trying". "Snowboarding" is a gerund (-ing verb form that functions as a noun) and would function as the direct object of the verb phrase "was trying". Either of those sentences would be grammatically correct. Sentence 2: This one is more tricky. I used this sentence diagrammer to help me. "It is uncomfortable living in a hot climate without air conditioning" is not a complete sentence according to the sentence diagramming website. "Living" does not have a grammatically correct function in the sentence. "Living" cannot be a present participle because it is not modifying a noun. That means "living" is a gerund, which puts a noun in an ungrammatical place in the sentence. I think it would be like saying "It is ugly dress". If you wanted to use "living" in the sentence, it would be grammatically correct as "Living in a hot climate without air-conditioning is uncomfortable". That means "It is uncomfortable to live in a hot climate without air conditioning" is correct. "To live" is an infinitive functioning as an adverb because it modifies "uncomfortable". In either case, the grammatically correct choice is not the one I would have chosen at first glance. This is a situation when I have to concede to my linguistics background and realize that people make language, not grammar books, and figure that if people use it and it makes sense, then it is fine. In other words, I would not mark either "wrong" in a paper I edited.
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Post by chonies on Apr 14, 2014 11:42:30 GMT -4
Thank you! I have cut and pasteded to help me understand.
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Gigiree
Sloane Ranger
Procrastinators Unite. . . Tomorrow.
Posts: 2,554
Jul 23, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -4
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Post by Gigiree on Apr 15, 2014 9:11:59 GMT -4
Chonies, I checked with another English teacher (30 year veteran), and she also picked the wrong ones in both sentences. She concurred with me that either choice would work for the first and agreed that "living" sounds better in the second. I explained what I believed was the reasoning, and she said that was being "entirely too picky" about grammar as an English speaker would use and understand the wrong choices, so they must not be that wrong.
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Post by chonies on Apr 15, 2014 17:38:32 GMT -4
Ooh, thanks for asking! I have another question that I'll post in a few but in the meantime, I forgot to mention that the textbook differentiated between the meanings of the word "try": as an experiment and as making an effort. And personally I don't think it's too picky And if it were, it's not like there's anything wrong with that. ETA: Gigiree, as promised. This one I can't really answer because I'm tired and I've hit the wall. The unit is passive infinitives and gerunds. Sometimes adolescents complain about not being understood by their parents.A student asked why it was incorrect to use 'to be' in place of 'being.' The only answer I have is "because, mmkay?" but that wasn't enough for an insistent student.
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Gigiree
Sloane Ranger
Procrastinators Unite. . . Tomorrow.
Posts: 2,554
Jul 23, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -4
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Post by Gigiree on Apr 16, 2014 22:36:37 GMT -4
Chonies, Looking at the sentence Sometimes adolescents complain about not being understood by their parents, the student wants to know why it is not ok to replace "not being understood" with "not to be understood". That sentence would be Sometimes adolescents complain about not to be understood by their parents. In the first sentence, "being understood" is a gerund phrase as it functions as the object to the preposition "about". In the second sentence, "to be" is a perfectly good infinitive, and it is being paired with "understood," which is functioning as an adjective. This is a grammatically correct infinitive phrase (I want to be understood); however, in the above sentence, it does not work at all. In fact, it sounds completely wrong. The only reason I can figure is that English doesn't allow infinitives to be the objects of a preposition. This may not be the actual reason, but I can't think of another, nor can I find one in my 30 minutes of internet/grammar book sleuthing. Sorry for not being more definitive, but I hope this helps a little.
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Post by Mugsy on Apr 20, 2014 14:52:46 GMT -4
To change to something more lightweight... There is a commercial from the Ontario government touting its bold new transit plan. It includes the phrase "and that means less cars on the highway."
Shouldn't it be "fewer cars"? Cars are quantifiable. "Less traffic" would work and they use that phrase also. It makes my teeth grate.
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Post by chonies on Apr 20, 2014 16:14:58 GMT -4
Argh, irritating. I usually think I'm pretty mellow on things like less/fewer and bring/take--I'm happy when they're used very precisely, but it's not like the meaning is completely obfuscated, at least in conversation. That said, I totally agree that it grates more when someone was paid to make a grammar mistake. My lightweight contribution: I had a student trying to make the past tense of "to speed" the other day. She wasn't landing on "speeded", so I gave her a hint and said, "there's a conventional form and an irregular form, but both are correct." So she guessed "spode." I didn't mean to, but I started giggling uncontrollably. ETA: And lest I sound I like a heartless American LOLing cruelly at an international student, I apologized profusely and told her her instincts were sound. She didn't seem too bothered.
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Post by ladyboy on Apr 29, 2014 20:46:03 GMT -4
OK, two places today I saw people (or should I say, "people") use weary instead of wary. And my flipping marketing person does it too! It drives me batty!! It's so damn obvious! (obviously not!)
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