The Fan Fiction Thread

[Neurochick]

Jul 31, 2012 6:53:59 GMT -4 @winnifer said:

How old are the women who are buying and loving this book? In my experience, it's older (40s-50s) suburban types who may not be very internet savvy and may not know where to look to find accurate BDSM stories online. Probably they're afraid to search for it because who knows what might turn up. If they want to read 50SOG, they can just order it from Amazon or buy it at a bookstore, all nice and simple. It's much more publicly acceptable. No muss, no fuss, no embarrassment.

From the women I know here in NYC, it's all types, from 20's to 50's. However you are right that many of them might not be familiar with fanfiction sites.

One thing to get upset about, though, is the fact that James took her Twilight fanfic, filed off the serial numbers and sold it. In many if not most fandoms, pulling a number like that is a serious breach of etiquette. Fans are lucky that most creators don't forbid us from playing in their sandbox and making derivative works as long as we don't go behind their back and sell it, claiming it as our own. James did just that and to my knowledge she has never so much as acknowledged that if it wasn't for Twilight, 50 Shades wouldn't even exist. She's certainly not the first author to do that, and she and these other authors are the reason fandom can't have nice things.

You know, even though James has said that this started out as Twilight fan fiction, I do get this quote. The idea of fan fiction is kind of an agreement between the creators and the fans; the creators will look the other way and the fans will write what they want and not make money off of their work.

However, the what the creators have realized is that the fan fiction is kind of a free advertisement. I have heard of people who read fan fiction of a show BEFORE they actually watched on TV or read the book and it was the fan fiction that got them interested.

I think that's why Stephanie Myers isn't saying a damn word; there's one more movie to come out and if she gets too pissy she might piss off the fans more than they're already pissed off now with the break up of Edward and Bella Rpatz and KStew.

[chiqui]

I get that shit free on the internet, as poorly written, derivative trash should be.

Yeah that's my problem with it basically-I feel like all these women are wasting good money when they can find hotter sex stories online for free.

So true, so true. Another point, being professionally published legitimizes a work for some people, makes it seem better than the free stuff, because money and contracts have changed hands. Althought clearly, with fiction, this is not the case -- the work stands on its own merits, not its packaging, publicity, or delivery. I mean, Catcher in the Rye is the same work whether it's on a free PDF or in a shiny, hiply-illustated trade 19.99 trade paperback, you know? That's why I, personally, am steamed about this, that 50Grey has been legitimitized to a lot of readers.

And of course Stephanie Meyers is neutral about this because it's free publicity (or maybe her lawyers, or the people behind the movies, have asked her to be). The new Star Trek series that started in the 1980s would never have gotten off the ground if it were not for the efforts of fans, many of whom wrote and swapped ST fanfiction and openly sold it at conventions, and which had the blessings of Gene Roddenbery.

(Real story: I was at a SF media convention in the early 1980s and saw a stack of what I thought were printed pamphlets with the ST characters on the cover. I was in college working in a printing shop at the time, and they looked like stuff that migt have been made in a small press shop, so I picked one upand leafed through it. There were fanfic stories in there... and illustrations...Kirk and Spock, very naked, kissing passionately, stroking each others' tools of male lust, also rendered realistically, and in Spocks' case, appropriately alien... I gasped and quickly put it down. And this stack was displayed there for all to see and peruse.)

Anyway, I don't faut Meyers for permitting fanfic, but her failure to quash a mega moneymaking fanfic steams me, because it spawns a bad precedent for other fanfic writers to rip off authors who may nt be able to afford it.

[Neurochick]

Anyway, I don't faut Meyers for permitting fanfic, but her failure to quash a mega moneymaking fanfic steams me, because it spawns a bad precedent for other fanfic writers to rip off authors who may nt be able to afford it.

I heard in the mid 90's when the TV show "Millennium" started, Chris Carter, the show's creator, tried to shut down a fan site and told the teenager who owned it that if he didn't shut it down he'd be sued. Immediately the fans came down hard on Carter and told him that they weren't going to watch Millennium or the X Files if he kept that up.

The creators know not to mess with the fans, fanfic for better or worse is free publicity.

I was on Broadway a few weeks ago and noticed that everything was either a revival or an adaptation of a Disney movie. Producers don't want to take the chance on new material because it takes a lot of money to get a show on Broadway and if it flops that's money down the drain. Maybe publishing is the same way, "50 Shades" worked because it was Twilight fanfiction and EL James had probably a lot of hits online; so the logic is that if that many people read it online, then more people would read it in real life. Then came the buzz and BOOM, it's a hit. The problem isn't EL James, it's that publishers might not want to take a chance on an unknown writer who can't prove a fanbase. Just my two cents.

[Freelance Exorcist]

Anyway, I don't faut Meyers for permitting fanfic, but her failure to quash a mega moneymaking fanfic steams me, because it spawns a bad precedent for other fanfic writers to rip off authors who may nt be able to afford it.

Right. A lot of creators look the other way when it comes to fanfic and fanart or even actively encourage it. If enough people get it into their heads that they can make some easy millions by repurposing that Avengers fanfic they wrote when they were 13, I could see these creators, and the law, putting the kibosh on fanworks all together. I don't mean just people like Diana Gabaldon going on melodramatic rants about it, I'm talking Lars Ulrich-style crusades to make it illegal.

[Deleted]

Jul 30, 2012 9:57:39 GMT -4 @kungfuwaynewho said:

Who's so upset? I feel like you're putting these serious motives behind what's mostly just people boggling at how a bunch of poorly-written and embarrassing knock-off fanfic became the most popular books in the world. No one's out grabbing their torches.

People can like whatever they want. And I can point and laugh at them for liking it. That seems fair.

People are going on and on about it excessively, IMO, though. And here in the UK, the press has definitely been writing about all the bad things that will happen/are happening because women are reading 50 Shades of Grey. I still haven't read the book, but I find much of the criticism and mockery of it everywhere has a really condescending tone, as if grown women need to be lectured and enlightened and accept that it's wrong to like it.

Pointing and laughing at what people like seems to become ramped up when it's something women like. 50 Shades is just the latest in a long line of successful crap, yet it's being talked about like it heralds the fall of civilization or something. It's similar to the way people go on and on about the awfulness of Twilight. The Transformers movies are just as awful (they get pretty much the same ratings as Twilight on Rotten Tomatoes) and make even more money but I can't go a day on the internet without reading a comment or coming across a site that mocks Twilight, whereas Transformers goes by unmentioned. People shrug their shoulders about another bad action movie, but a bad romance or rom-com gets torn to shreds.

And men watching the All-Time Greatest Gangbang on their laptops don't get nagged about how porn from France or whatever is so much better written and more beautifully shot. The purpose of porn is to get people off; if 50 Shades is getting some women off, the job is done; why do these women need to go looking for better porn? Like I said, there is some real condescension in 50 Shades discussion.

Honestly, most of my irritation is just because I'm so sick of hearing about this book.

My problem with a lot of people who seem not to like this book is they seem kind of snobbish, kind if, "I'm too cool for this shit" type of people;

Not only that, but I think I lot of women want to make fun of 50 Shades because it's a female-driven phenomenon and they're horrified that someone might mistake them for one of the silly women who like it. They want to proclaim, "Not me! I'm not like those other women! I laugh at those women just like the men do!" as loudly and as often as possible, IMO. Yeah, I haven't read it and may not be the best judge, but I've read a lot of crap million-selling books and I've never seen such OTT mockery, not even for The DaVinci Code.

[Neurochick]

People are going on and on about it excessively, IMO, though. And here in the UK, the press has definitely been writing about all the bad things that will happen/are happening because women are reading 50 Shades of Grey. I still haven't read the book, but I find much of the criticism and mockery of it everywhere has a really condescending tone, as if grown women need to be lectured and enlightened and accept that it's wrong to like it.

To me, if a woman gets into an abusive relationship JUST BECAUSE she read 50 Shades of Grey (I'm still trying to get through book #3, it's dreadfully dull and even the sex gets boring), then as someone stated on another forum, girlfriend has more issues than Vogue.

Right. A lot of creators look the other way when it comes to fanfic and fanart or even actively encourage it. If enough people get it into their heads that they can make some easy millions by repurposing that Avengers fanfic they wrote when they were 13, I could see these creators, and the law, putting the kibosh on fanworks all together. I don't mean just people like Diana Gabaldon going on melodramatic rants about it, I'm talking Lars Ulrich-style crusades to make it illegal.

I can see some trying to make it illegal, but unless a producer or writer wants the wrath of fangirls/fanboys then they'd best keep it moving. Because if you ban one site, they'll be about 3893884784 more right behind it and then what is the government going to do, spend all their time trying to ban fanfic?

[Deleted]

ronette, I completely agree with you about how entertainment that's traditionally viewed as female-oriented gets the short stick. It's why I hate the phrase "guilty pleasure," because that's almost always code for something that girls like. But...

Pointing and laughing at what people like seems to become ramped up when it's something women like. 50 Shades is just the latest in a long line of successful crap, yet it's being talked about like it heralds the fall of civilization or something.

For me at least, it's because these books are REALLY JUST THAT AWFUL. They aren't even Twilight-level bad. They are absolutely mind-numbingly horribly written. And they're NY Times Bestsellers. And everyone's reading them. I think it's a bit contradictory on the one hand to tell people that it's inappropriate to bemoan something just being like plain fucking bad and then say, hey, porn doesn't have to be good, what's the big deal? When this shit was on the internet and they were Bella and Edward, sure, it was just some bad knock-off AU fanfic porn crap and whatever. But filing off the serial numbers and publishing it legitimizes it, and turns it into fair game.

And, you know, I'm a feminist. I'm a good feminist. I'm still allowed to look at something and say that it is objectively bad and that people who like it - whether they're predominantly women or not - have poor taste, and that doesn't mean I'm some kind of unwitting tool of the patriarchy or whatever.

He reaches between my legs and pulls on the blue string. What! And gently pulls my tampon out and tosses it into the nearby toilet. Holy fuck. Sweet mother of all. Jeez. And then he’s inside me. Ah!

How dare anyone criticize such sparkling prose, such subtle writing! I mean, jeeeeeez.

[chiqui]

Right. A lot of creators look the other way when it comes to fanfic and fanart or even actively encourage it. If enough people get it into their heads that they can make some easy millions by repurposing that Avengers fanfic they wrote when they were 13, I could see these creators, and the law, putting the kibosh on fanworks all together.

For me, I feel that if the source material is from a conglomerate effort, like Stargate or the Avengers movie franchise, where actors, writers, directors, set designers, etc. all share in the process of creation, it's a source of free publicity, and if anyone makes money off it, the original money-making monster isn't that hurt. But for an author whose books are competing with readers' money with the fanfic books, it's unfair. Of course, Stephanie Meyers has millions already, she doesn't care. But what about a much-loved cult author of series books like Francesca Lia Block, who is in danger of losing her house? (Not due to fanfic though.) Some writers walk a fine line, financially. A ripoff of their work might mean actual loss of readers and income.

He reaches between my legs and pulls on the blue string. What! And gently pulls my tampon out and tosses it into the nearby toilet. Holy fuck. Sweet mother of all. Jeez. And then he’s inside me. Ah!

This sounds like a lot of bad internet porn I have read. A few other gems from those days:

"Sub coming to my pleasure"

"Toot of my thong and went comando home"

[Deleted]

Aug 1, 2012 13:05:03 GMT -4 @kungfuwaynewho said:

For me at least, it's because these books are REALLY JUST THAT AWFUL. They aren't even Twilight-level bad. They are absolutely mind-numbingly horribly written. And they're NY Times Bestsellers. And everyone's reading them. I think it's a bit contradictory on the one hand to tell people that it's inappropriate to bemoan something just being like plain fucking bad and then say, hey, porn doesn't have to be good, what's the big deal?

I don't think I'm being contradictory. I don't think porn has to be good, but I'm not claiming people shouldn't say it's bad. What I think is that how loud and how long people are saying 50 Shades is bad feels excessive to me and I think a lot of it is down to the fact that its author and fans are women. Books and movies that sell in their millions to men do not create this kind of storm no matter how bad they are.

I'm not saying no one should criticise 50 Shades, just what I think is behind some of this criticism. I'm aware it's a MMV situation.

[Neurochick]

I agree that I don't like what's behind the criticism; a lot of it seems elitist and just plain nasty, like people who feel that just because they have advanced degrees that gives them a right to tell other people what they can and can't like.

For me at least, it's because these books are REALLY JUST THAT AWFUL. They aren't even Twilight-level bad. They are absolutely mind-numbingly horribly written. And they're NY Times Bestsellers. And everyone's reading them.

What I'm hearing a lot of is resentment. Some people are angry that these books, which are NOT well written at all are popular and are making EL James a very rich woman while other writers who may write better can't even get an agent.

I ask myself questions like, why do SO many people like these books? As I said, I'm on #3 and it's hard going because it's boring at this point. But I wonder, do some women secretly wish they met a man like Christian Grey when they were younger? I can understand that feeling when you are stuck in traffic or have to ride a crowded train or bus to get to work. I can understand that feeling if you have a husband or a boyfriend who forgets your birthday or sits in front of the TV all day watching sports.

Sure Christian Grey is a control freak, but he's also good looking, super rich and really loves Ana, even though he sometimes has a weird way of showing it. There are things he does for her in book #3 that are very sweet and kind and considerate and there are times when he's a pain in the ass.