Hip-Hop Music

[gloworm]

Yup.

and "hate" probably wasn't the best term to use.

[Deleted]

Thank goodness that I'm not the only person who doesn't like 50 Cent and his stupid Candy Shop song. "I'll let you lick the lollipop"??! Nice innuendo! HMM whatever could that possibly mean?

[zacandmax]

Although Fiddy's music has it's place, I never thought he could flow. When he came out with "Wankster" I thought "this guy can't rap for shit". I'm surprised that his career lasted this long. He does tend to be redundant with his songs and that old challenge routine is tired. I mean really, trying to go against Fat Joe and Jadakiss? Why is he trying to ruin careers like he did with Ja Rule? Why isn't Dre and Em telling him to shut the fuck up?
As far as real hip-hop goes, I love the Roots. But then again I'm from Philly and we all love the Roots.

[snarkyfish]

Are none of the seasoned hiphop heads from the old thread here? I'm always in the mood for some Fiddy bashing but really I didn't think that that would be all this thread would be about.

Anyone willing to discuss underground hiphop and what's new on the alternative scene?

Hell even mainstream acts and their output. Besides the all too easy and obvious digs at Fiddy - which personally I think belong on the 50 cent thread in Celebrities as it's mostly so far been about the odiousness of the Fiddy himself - or alternately making fun of Puffy who hasn't even released a hiphop venture as a solo since a few years ago. Maybe if a broader range of people got mentioned I could understand it but this is kind of painting the inaccurate picture that 1)hiphop is dead 2)50 cent is singlehandedly responsible for it's demise.

[ot and complete aside]How come we don't seem to mention the fact that 50 cent is Eminem's protege? And that Eminem and Dr Dre are responsible for launching him. Why aren't they getting stick for pushing Fiddy and the G-Unit at us? Em but certainly Dre are respected artists right? And they gave Fiddy's lame ass a record contract?[/ot]

There is a lot more going on in the hiphop world that 50 cent and G-unit. And this arguement over whether hiphop's "death" has been raging since 1988 when De la Soul was the vibe - way before 50 and his ilk. It's just that people have their varying ideas of what "real" hiphop is and when something different comes along apparently it's not hiphop because they say so. Well fast forward to 2005 De la Soul are widely considered hiphop legends.

But with this latest "death" of hiphop as far as the mainstream or rather what most non-hiphop fans would know about, it is definately about "hiphop" or whatever gets played on MTV and presented as "rap music"/in the hiphop genre being not about the art form or even respected as art but about commerciality and about it being run mainly by people who know nothing about hiphop and couldn't care less - they are just trying to market whatever stereotype of "rap music" they have to the masses.

I think I've said this before but I think it says a lot more about the people who buy into this bullshit as the real deal and fall for the stereotypes presented to them than hiphop/the hiphop perpertrators themselves.

But people get so personal about it like it's only happening to hiphop. It's happened to pop too. The advent of the boyband, Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson. Everything about the music biz in general - not just mainstream hiphop - is about putting out some low grade pseudo shit with no real talent invested and of zero artistic integrity and raking in the short term bucks. Just slap on a catchy tune, digitally remaster it and send it to press. It's been that way and the norm for years. Mainstream representation of hiphop isn't the only casualty.

Is it just me or does Lloyd Banks of the aforementioned G-Unit look like a carbon copy of Craig David. Where's the Separated At birth Thread because them dudes are twins I swear it!

Topic? The Roots for me peaked with Things Fall Apart which is flawless track for track and their next album from that Phrenology was good.

However their latest album they released last year sucks IMHO. The Roots as described on the old thread I miss so much!!! (and I agree with the observation/analysis) are a bit caught up in their own hype of being the "arty, jazz-loving but still none the less commercially accessible above all" hiphop ensemble. It's so transparent now. It smacks of prentention and a hint of fake.

They used to be a good band and I really treasure my copy of Things Fall Apart and think Phrenology was better than a lot of people gave it credit for at the time of it's release. But bottomline I'm just not feeling the Roots anymore. I didn't buy their last album - whatever the hell it was called - and I thought the main single off it was lame.

I just bought Saul Williams album. I had no idea who he was/is. I just saw it at the record store, the cover looked interesting and I needed something new to listen to so I bought it. I didn't even know it was a hiphop album, seeing as I'd never heard of the guy. I've listened to it once or twice and so far I'm feeling it. In fact I think I love it. The styles of music are so diverse (apparently he's dueted with punk rock bands in the past) and the lyrics read like a - well like a book or a poem. I don't know if I could call the lyrics preachy - apprarently he's a preacher's son too - but they are definately meaningful, and thought provoking. But that aside the vivid stories he paints are both fantastic and realistic at the same time.

I googled the guy after I listened to the album and apparently he's a poet - he inspired Def Poetry Jam?? - and he's an actor. Some movie called Slam that I've never seen or heard of (released 1998) and according to IMDB he was in K-Pax and is currently in Lackawanna Blues.

Apparently this is not his debut solo album and he has another/other albums. Anyone heard them?

Anybody know much about this dude?

Also I loved Roots Manuva's Run Come Save Me. I looked up his previous album Brand New Secondhand and loved it too. (I found out over this last weekend that "Brand New Secondhand" is a Peter Tosh reference - a title of a Peter Tosh song/album). Anyway I just got his latest Awfully Deep and I didn't find it deep. My friend also has the album and loves it and thinks it's really deep and insists I give it another listen or that I'm missing something. I admit I bought it months ago, didn't have time to listen to it and shelved it until I finally unwrapped it and put it in the player a few weeks ago. I listened to a couple of songs and skipped through the rest so maybe I just didn't give it enough of a chance?

Anyone have any opinions on this album that might convince me to take the time to listen to it a little harder - before it becomes brand new secondhand in my next CD clear out?

BTW for anyone from the old thread I have had Mos Def's The New Danger for months now and it still hasn't grown on me. Don't get me worng folks. I like it. I'm just not as in love with it as I thought I would be. Anyway even if I never get into it fully I will FOREVER love my mos handsome, mos talented and mos sexy Mos Def for being "the Black man from Black Starr!". I still love rocking that album. And unfortunately I still believe that neither Mos nor Kweli will ever top it with any of their solo ventures. Black Starr still be shining.

Anyway now I'm reminded I forgot once again to get myself a copy of OutKast's oldie ATLiens and that's what I was doing in the damn record store in the first place before I got distracted and bought some other stuff and forgot to pick it up yet again.

Anyone remember Eminem's Just Lose It video that prompted Bananas In Pyjamas Evil Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition Michael Jackson to start jumping up and down in the media accusing "Mr Eminem" of being a racist!! I suppose he needed a break from calling Tom Sneddon a racist, and Diane Sawyer, and FOX news, and Judge Melville, and the police, and the media. Anyway I want to download the video. I'm not so hot on Eminem but with the fuss Wacko made out of it and trying to get it banned I came to like watching it rolling up on MTV every 15 minutes. Anyone know any safe sites I can download music videos from?

[zacandmax]

OodleNoodle said:

I just bought Saul Williams album. I had no idea who he was/is. I just saw it at the record store, the cover looked interesting and I needed something new to listen to so I bought it. I didn't even know it was a hiphop album, seeing as I'd never heard of the guy. I've listened to it once or twice and so far I'm feeling it. In fact I think I love it. The styles of music are so diverse (apparently he's dueted with punk rock bands in the past) and the lyrics read like a - well like a book or a poem. I don't know if I could call the lyrics preachy - apprarently he's a preacher's son too - but they are definately meaningful, and thought provoking. But that aside the vivid stories he paints are both fantastic and realistic at the same time.
I googled the guy after I listened to the album and apparently he's a poet - he inspired Def Poetry Jam?? - and he's an actor. Some movie called Slam that I've never seen or heard of (released 1998) and according to IMDB he was in K-Pax and is currently in Lackawanna Blues.
Apparently this is not his debut solo album and he has another/other albums. Anyone heard them?
Anybody know much about this dude?

Saul Williams was the guy in Lackawanna Blues who constantly jingled his keys. He also had a recurring role on the UPN sitcom, Girlfriends as the celibate, poet boyfriend of one of the girls. I saw him on Def Poetry Jam and knew he was a poet and actor, but had no idea he put an album out.

Maybe this should go into the websites thread, but D-Nice of KRS One fame has a good website. He is now a photographer and has great shots of hip-hop pioneers. D-Nice

[vegasusa555]

I've always wondered this but, why is Kanye West seen as this HUGE talent. Asshole attitude aside, the motherfucker cannot rap! Is this just me? Wow, he's so deep and moving because he rapped while his mouth was wired shut!!! Woopdedoo! I can't even talk about this to the rest of my friends because they practically want to stab me for questioning his flow. Personally I think he should stay with producing. He will forever hold a small pass with me for the song Encore by Jay Z. God damn that song is the shit!!!!! Also, he did some good work with John Legend too.

PS: His new song "Diamonds" sucks ass and I wish my local radio stations would stop playing it!!!

[underjoyed]

Saul Williams' first album was Amythest Rock Star. Late in 2004, he put out a self-titled album. I think I like Amythest Rock Star more, but that may be because I only picked up the latest one a month or so ago, and I'm still getting into it.

I'm not going to repeat my post from the first page regarding the vast gulf between what gets played on the radio versus what's worth listening to, but Saul Williams is a pretty good example of the fact that there is innovative stuff out there. Personally, I tend to prefer my hip-hop slightly more on the political side (Saul, Talib Kweli, etc.) but good beats are good beats. One of my favorites - still (it's about eight years old) - is Funcrusher Plus by Company Flow. It more than holds its own today. If you're not familiar, check it out.

BTW, OodleNoodle, I feel the same way about The New Danger. I really wanted to like it, because it's Mos (which to me is reason enough), but I just can't warm to it. I don't hate it, but it's not constantly in my CD player, either.

[gloworm]

BTW, OodleNoodle, I feel the same way about The New Danger. I really wanted to like it, because it's Mos (which to me is reason enough), but I just can't warm to it. I don't hate it, but it's not constantly in my CD player, either.

I just felt like he was beating us over the head with the "I do rock, too! I'm not just hiphop!" theme. (Because rapping just ain't good enough for the RenaissanceB-Boy™)
Seemed like was trying too hard.

[preciosa]

Topic? I agree that P. Diddy has alot to answer for regarding the current state of mainstream hip-hop. But...and as much as it pains me...people buy it! That's what amazes me. It's trite and uninventive and generally stagnant but it seems to sell. *sigh* On the other hand, while I firmly believe that P. Diddy has been attempting for far too long now to dig a grave for the genre, I'm disheartened by the increasing numbers who seem more than ready to stand around with hammers waiting to nail the coffin shut.

I think that while Diddy may have started the descent of hip hop, he's certainly not respnsible for it now. Whne was the last time that a Bad Boy artiste made any impact on the charts, far less enough impact to be considered detrimental to hip hop?

The real culprit, IMO. Check Def Jam and Murder Inc The Inc.

[underjoyed]

I think that while Diddy may have started the descent of hip hop, he's certainly not respnsible for it now.

True dat.

Regarding Mos's latest and rock/hip-hop crossovers generally, they're often a strange combination (all the way back to the most well-known ones: Anthrax/Ice-T or Run-DMC/Aerosmith ). When they work, they work well. When they don't, the results can be damn odd.

Saul Williams's latest also has a heavier rock feel - he teams up with Zac De la Rocha (Rage Against the Machine) on one track - and I think he actually pulls it off pretty successfully.