Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh

[Auroranorth]

Kent and Gloucester are both royal dukedoms ATM, but when the current title holders die they simply become regular dukedoms. The heir won't be Prince Whoever. The current title holders are grandsons of King George V, the late Queen's grandfather, hence them being princes.

At this point, most of the dukes of York have either gone on to be king or else died without heirs, so the title has always reverted to the crown. The only time it has ever passed to a family member was when it was first created for Edmund of Langley in 1385. It passed first to his older son Edward, who died in 1415 without heirs, then to his grandson Richard (whose father was also named Richard and was Edmund's younger son, and who predeceased him), who died in 1460. The title went to Richard's son, who took the throne as Edward VI in 1461, and the title merged with the crown for the first but not last time.

For clarification, titles that are merged with the crown are no longer used by the monarch, because you can't hold a title from yourself. So heirs who were not Prince of Wales no longer use whatever title they previously held. They can go on to bestow it as they please.

All this to say that when Andrew dies, unless he pops up with a legitimate male heir, the dukedom will revert to the RF and they can do as they please with it. And I think that it might be better off to not bestow any more dukedoms on royal children. The heir gets what they get, and everyone else goes off and finds their own life. Charlotte will likely be Princess Royal in due time, but that is purely honorary.

[Carolinian]

Also, I think the policy is to no longer bestow *any* hereditary peerages.

A brief scan through Wikipedia tells me the last hereditary peerage made was Earl of Snowdon, for Princess Margaret's husband Antony Armstrong-Jones, in 1960.

[featherhat]

Mar 11, 2023 10:45:03 GMT -4 Carolinian said:

Also, I think the policy is to no longer bestow *any* hereditary peerages.

A brief scan through Wikipedia tells me the last hereditary peerage made was Earl of Snowdon, for Princess Margaret's husband Antony Armstrong-Jones, in 1960.

Well James is still going to keep Earl of Wessex and Forfar etc. But this may represent a shift in granting Royal Dukedoms for life rather than hereditarily and letting the "lesser" titles be hereditary instead. That way the BRF keeps the "important" titles close to them which was allegedly one reason why Charles was allegedly reluctant to follow his parents wishes. There aren't that many Royal Dukedoms in the first place, especially now that the Irish ones lie Connacht are out and it also avoids the situation that's going to happen of Prince Archie, Duke of Sussex of Montecito California who sets foot in the UK once every 5 years or so.

I doubt any married in man will ever get a title again ala Antony Armstrong Jones. That precedent was set when Angus Ogilvy and Mark Phillips declined titles.

[seat6]

Mar 12, 2023 6:31:59 GMT -4 featherhat said:

I doubt any married in man will ever get a title again ala Antony Armstrong Jones. That precedent was set when Angus Ogilvy and Mark Phillips declined titles.

I couldn't remember who Angus Ogilvy was so I looked at his Wikipedia entry. He was the husband of Princess Alexandra of Kent, QEII's first cousin. He was involved in some financial scandals and did charity work, so rather typical minor royal, it seems. This part of his bio cracked me up:

Legacy
Ogilvy and his wife attended a special service at St Anne's Church, Kew, on Sunday 10 May 1964, to mark the church's 250th anniversary. Two pew cushions in the church are embroidered with their names and coats of arms.

Can you imagine living to the age of 76 and the best people can say about you is, "Well, he once sat here."

I think Edward's obituary will be a bit more laudatory, to his credit.

[americanchai]

Angus Ogilvy had one of those aristocratic backgrounds that doesn't necessitate work or a title (though he was knighted in 1988, for...being married to Princess Alexandra?). The Ogilvys are old Scottish horse-racing folk, so right up QEII's alley.

Edward and Sophie are following in the footsteps of the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester who are so discreet yet hardworking that you barely notice they're there. Good for them.