The Divergent Series (with spoilers)

[Deleted]

I started this thread to not hijack the YA thread but to also include this sparkling perfect review of Allegiant:

Nailed it.

I agree with everything that Penny said. Plus, after some digging, apparently Roth has strong beliefs about killing off the hero and how life is not fair/sometimes death is meaningless/some people live unhappy and unfulfilled lonely lives.

I think my thoughts about this are that most readers already know this. We see it every day. We experience loss and grief and pain. But it is in the human condition to have hope. The end of the series left me without hope. Because one narrator is gone and the other is shattered beyond repair.

She wrote the series in first person with a specific theme and idea and then because that was her intention from the beginning, killed off her heroine in a arbitrary meaningless way. I think that is where my deep dissatisfaction is coming from - the feeling that the rugs was pulled out from under the reader based on a rather negative and depressing worldview. I feel like the author was concerned more about proving a point than doing justice to the series and making decisions based on the plot and characters.

There is a debate at Amazon on whether a writer should write for him/herself or for the audience. What do you think? I think that the author should find a balance between their vision and the audience expectations.

[GoldenFleece]

Haven't read this series but have followed the furor surrounding its conclusion. Lots of books end with a dead protagonist. It's undoubtedly less of a "thing" in YA fantasy, but in all these stories, the epic hero is either going to live or die. Merely killing off the protagonist in a poorly written way doesn't make a writer "brave" or improve the story's quality, but Veronica Roth is rather young, so maybe she's convinced she's really being edgy here.

[chiqui]

Are there spoilers somewhere for the whole series?

[GoldenFleece]

Apr 5, 2014 13:52:22 GMT -4 chiqui said:

Are there spoilers somewhere for the whole series?

Wikipedia has plot summaries for all three books:

Divergent
Insurgent
Allegiant

[Deleted]

Apr 5, 2014 13:51:29 GMT -4 GoldenFleece said:

Haven't read this series but have followed the furor surrounding its conclusion. Lots of books end with a dead protagonist. It's undoubtedly less of a "thing" in YA fantasy, but in all these stories, the epic hero is either going to live or die. Merely killing off the protagonist in a poorly written way doesn't make a writer "brave" or improve the story's quality, but Veronica Roth is rather young, so maybe she's convinced she's really being edgy here.

I felt like she was jerking the reader around.

As implausible as it was, I liked what she did with the factions but she seemed to have written herself into a hole. In the third book, what was outside of Chicago was very unsatisfying. If that had been better drawn, maybe I could have stomached Tris' death a little more. But probably not because it was pointless. You are never going to please everyone and I know that stories often have unpopular plot twists. But I have rarely read a book where everything went wrong. I can usually find something that I liked about a book but I am having a hard time thinking of anything here.

And the serums! There was a serum for everything - even to counteract the other serums, which just took all of the urgency out of it. Needed something done? Go get a serum. But what about the death serum? That is okay, the MC is immune to it. That is just lazy writing.

[tabby]

From Penny's review:

And this is the real failure with the dual narrative: Tris and Tobias were written identically. I, along with every single person who has reviewed this book, found myself constantly flipping back to check the chapter heading to remind myself who was talking.

Yes! I could not tell the difference between the two narrative voices, and it drove me crazy.

Did the movie people buy the rights before the third book came out? I'm curious about their reaction to the end.

[chiqui]

I know the movie rights to Allegiant were sold before the first book was even published.

I read the plot summary, and... wow. Sounds like it would have been a much better manga or anime than YA novel or movie.

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2014 20:23:23 GMT -4 chiqui said:

I know the movie rights to Allegiant were sold before the first book was even published.

I read the plot summary, and... wow. Sounds like it would have been a much better manga or anime than YA novel or movie.

The filmmakers were taking quite the leap of faith.

[chiqui]

I guess they had noted the success of the Hunger Games trilogy. Allegiant seems pretty much in the same vein... and as I had already ommented, I bet the author was inspired by Japanese anime where the action is non-stop and serves to develop the characters, and loose ends are not always tied up neatly.

[famvir]

Is Divergent as popular as a book series as Hunger Games? (Or even Twilight?). Are they bringing the same degree of fan interest to create a built in base? Hunger Games and Harry Potter are the first really good Young Adult book I've read as an adult, and I was interested in seeing the movies, so I'm not the usual stan.

It seems that the go to movies for the ladies, are the 50 Shades, Twilight, make four movies in a row about fan fic young adult angst, not realizing the the books the most successful movies are good books, like Hunger Games and Harry Potter. We are now into third tier, and the holes are beginning to show.

Not going to bother to look it up, but wasn't there just a stinker of a first movie (His Something Something) based on the same "Hey, a lot of girls bought this book, we'll make Hunger Games money from this."