Podcasts

[kostgard]

I still think Gutierrez's situation is sad, but not nearly as much after reading Rabia's blog post on her. If only half of it is true, then she was pretty terrible.

Rabia also posted today about the racism/Islamophobia aspects. It's a good read in general on the topic as well as how it relates to the case.

But I've been buried in the blog from the attorney I linked to in my previous post - specifically the post where she dissects every phone call to and from Adnan's cell phone that day. I'll be damned if she doesn't make a pretty solid case that Jay did it.

ETA: Man, this attorney REALLY thinks that Jay did it. And she makes a good argument for it. But a couple of questions still stick or for me:

1. If Jay did it, why did he do it?

2. How did the murderer encounter Hae when they did? She apparently left school to go straight to go pick up her cousin, drop her cousin off at home, then back to school for the wrestling meet. That doesn't leave a lot of room for dilly-dallying and taking a detour to Best Buy to get strangled. And she never made it to her cousin's school, so the encounter must have happened right after she left school. There was some to-do about Adnan asking her for a ride, but all the evidence says he didn't get that ride. No one see her drive off with Jay (or anyone else, for that matter). Why did she stop for whoever killed her if she had a schedule to keep? If she was killed at Best Buy as Jay says she was, why did she agree to drive there instead of her cousin's school?

That's the biggest question for me. Unless she was carjacked, she knew whoever stopped her, but why did she stop?

[Deleted]

Okay, I finally listened to Serial and I'm now all caught up (I think tomorrow is the finale?!). I have enjoyed it, but I don't know if I feel that it quite lives up to all the hype. I guess it's just not what I was expecting. But I like Sarah and find Adnan to be interesting. I think I'm with everyone else in thinking there definitely wasn't enough evidence to convict Adnan. However, I also believe that he most likely committed the murder, especially since there are no other probable suspects. I think Jay was definitely more involved than he let on and that there is more to the story with the whole situation. So much of it just doesn't make sense.

[nemmie]

Anyone else listen to the last episode of Serial yet? I think it was a great ending. She brought in some new things, caught us up on the Innocence Project, tied up a few loose ends, and gave her opinion at the end.

I agree with her 100%. Knowing what we do now, at the end of this, he should have been acquitted. That said, I don't think I buy that he is innocent. I don't think Jay is innocent either.

I think Adnan and Jay were not 'friends' but probably aquaintances, I think they worked together to sell drugs (to what extent I am not sure, I really do think Adnan lent Jay his car/phone for drug runs though, I think the "oh I lent this dude I wasn't friends with my car and phone so he could buy his girlfriend a b-day present" was BS). Did they get in over their heads somewhere and something happened and they are both too scared to flip on someone? Hae accidentally killed and they were tasked with getting rid of her or else? I have no idea. I think I have more fantastical ideas and thoughts now that it's over than I did even a week ago! I feel like a crazy person even admitting that theory, like this isn't The Wire...

Serial really sucked me in good.

[kostgard]

The finale was today, and ultimately I fall where Sarah does - if I were on the jury, I absolutely would have voted to acquit. Am I 100% positive he's innocent? No. But if I had to put my money somewhere, it would be on innocent.

There simply is no evidence to support his guilt. There was only Jay's testimony - which he changed several times and it still had holes big enough to drive a truck through them. However, the nagging question is still "If not Adnan, then who? And why?" I haven't found a satisfactory answer to that.

I think the podcast became popular because it is such a tangled mess. If it was completely clear that Adnan was innocent, then it would just be a procedural, or a condemnation of the legal system. But it is really and truly a mystery, and people have enjoyed digging in and searching for clues and answers themselves. And I think most people could identify with Sarah as we are amateur sleuths like her and would probably be stumbling through the case in a similar manner.

And I did enjoy some of the meditations on truth and perception. I admit my own perception is probably colored by the fact that I've been reading Rabia's blog and she's obviously Team Adnan. But I like her. She's smart and funny and I've learned a lot about Islam from her blog, so I'm inclined to buy into what she says. Maybe I'd feel differently if I'd been reading the blog of someone who wasn't pro-Adnan.

[chingaza]

Such a good series. In the end...I think Adnan did it. Jay's involvement and lack of motive lead me to believe the essential part of his story. I think he was more involved than he wants to let on and tried to change his story enough to extricate himself from as much of the act of murder as possible. However, if I was on a jury I think I would have to vote for acquittal. Too much reasonable doubt. The theory that Sarah floated about Adnan thinking they would get back together as they always did, then realizing after Christmas break that she really had moved on (and had this new boyfriend to boot) sounded plausible to me. And also that he would have to be the world's most unlucky person to have all of those factors happen (lending out his car and phone, etc) on the day his ex-girlfriend goes missing and is murdered.

[bitca]

Dec 18, 2014 16:51:45 GMT -4 chingaza said:

Such a good series. In the end...I think Adnan did it.

I do, too. I really wanted Adnan to be innocent, I truly did, buuut... Even through all the weird twists and turns, I never felt like he didn't do it. "If not [him], then who?" indeed. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. The theory that he finally realized Hae had moved on makes sense. And, my God, there were times you could just hear the complete smirk in his voice when Sarah was on the phone with him. She seemed to fall for that hook, line, and sinker until today.

The thing that really killed me today, and sealed my whole "he's guilty" gut feeling, was when Adnan said, and I'm paraphrasing, that he was the only one who would know 100% what happened that day... long ass pause... oh, and the actual murderer. Adanan already said he can't remember shit of what happened that day. Why would he be the only one that knows? I just, ugh, frustrating.

But. Again. Still not enough evidence to charge as guilty.

[jmart]

Dec 19, 2014 1:57:16 GMT -4 bitca said:

Dec 18, 2014 16:51:45 GMT -4 chingaza said:

The thing that really killed me today, and sealed my whole "he's guilty" gut feeling, was when Adnan said, and I'm paraphrasing, that he was the only one who would know 100% what happened that day... long ass pause... oh, and the actual murderer. Adanan already said he can't remember shit of what happened that day. Why would he be the only one that knows? I just, ugh, frustrating.

But. Again. Still not enough evidence to charge as guilty.

I interpreted that as only he knew that he hadn't killed her...and the person who actually killed her, of course. That being said, I agree that there are too many coincidences for him not to have been involved. However, I don't think I would have found him guilty either. Like the investigator and many other people said, there were too many holes. I also liked hearing from Don, but have to kind of side-eye his alibi - his mom? I don't think he did it, but there is reasonable doubt for me.

It will be interesting to see where the appeals go!

[prisma]

Yes, and it'll be interesting to see what the DNA evidence turns up. I was surprised that I felt like that was a satisfying ending considering that there wasn't some big revelation at the end that confirmed or exonerated Adnan. I can't remember where I was reading this--I thought it was NYT but I can't find the op-ed--but that Serial was unbelievably lucky with its timing in that it was airing when these frustrations over the way race and our legal system exploded in a good way. The timing was lucky but the quality of their reporting and willingness to dig deep and grapple with tough questions really was a bright spot in what is otherwise a pretty grim chapter in race relations here.

I hope this doesn't come off as trite, because I really don't know anything about Sarah Koenig other than what I heard on Serial, but I'm really happy for her success. My professional experiences over the past two years have left me deeply jaded about gender discrimination in corporate leadership and sexism in general, so it was nice to see this thoughtful, intelligent woman hit it big with a program of substance. I think internet culture and the digital age emphasizes style over substance, so the fact that this was such a groundbreaking podcast is a big deal. I hope she goes places and becomes an influential figure.

[kostgard]

I too am really happy about Sarah's success, and the fact that her team (or at least her core team) was all female too.

I get that Occam's Razor says that Adnan did it because he would have to be extremely unlucky for all this to happen to him, but to me, the whole thing is completely effed up, including areas that Adnan obviously couldn't influence. Like, why did the state go out and find a nice non-public defender for Jay for free when that is NOT the usual practice? Why didn't Jay spend a single day in jail when he was, by his own confession, an accessory after the fact at the very least (plus he said Adnan told him that he was going to kill Hae, and he neglected to pick up the phone and call the police). Why did the prosecutor put Don on the stand - TWICE - and then yell at Don for not making Adnan sound like a monster when it seems he made it clear from the start that he didn't think Adnan was a bad guy. Also, they point out that Adnan didn't try to call Hae after she disappeared, but Don didn't either, and he was her current boyfriend at the time.

And add that Josh dude pointed out, why did Jay tell him that he helped bury Hae when he and Josh were only coworkers who occasionally smoked weed together, not BFFs. What a stupid risk - the only reason why he didn't call the police on Jay is that he didn't believe him. And why did Jay agree to help bury her at all? If Adnan threatened to expose his drug - dealing, why didn't Jay say, "Great. And I'll tell them about the dead body you just showed me"? Why did criminal mastermind Adnan leave the disposal of evidence to the dude he had to coerce into helping him? That also seems incredibly stupid. And WTF was up with Jay's story about Adnan knowing a hit man? What kind of 17 year old kid knows a hit man? And how, exactly, was Adnan going to pay the hit man to take out Jay? Hit men don't kill people as favors to teenagers. Was Adnan going to use the "hundreds of thousands" he stole from the mosque three years earlier? How smart of that kid to plan ahead and save up just in case he needed to pay a hit man one day. And why haven't Adnan's people who scared Jay so badly taken him out at any point during the last 15 years? Considering people have been able to find Jay easily on social media, he hasn't exactly been hiding. (Sorry. That part of Jay's story is clearly total bullshit. He even sounded like he was making it up on the spot).

All this at the very least tells me Jay was way more involved than he says. But again... why? Why would he help Adnan or anyone else kill Hae? Why would he kill her himself? And why was the state so eager to overlook all the changes and obvious BS in his story and why did they give him special treatment when he was just a poor, small-time weed dealer who at the very least helped his friend cover up a murder?

This whole thing is still murky as hell.

[Deleted]

I wonder if Sarah will keep talking to Adnan now that season one is finished. She seems to be genuinely fond of him (and was noticeably bothered by his statements of "you don't know me that well just from talking on the phone a little bit," etc.). I know it has nothing to do with the case really, it was just something that crossed my mind.