The Un-US Politics Discussion Scenario

[chonies]

Could someone explain the demonstrations in France? I read a few explainers, like this, and I'm still not sure. I get it. My gut reaction is that this is the French Tea Party and that makes me unsympathetic, but I know that's probably oversimplifying things.

[kostgard]

I like this "cheese submarine" analogy of Brexit.

[Martini Girl]

Dec 10, 2018 17:03:02 GMT -4 chonies said:

Could someone explain the demonstrations in France? I read a few explainers, like this, and I'm still not sure. I get it. My gut reaction is that this is the French Tea Party and that makes me unsympathetic, but I know that's probably oversimplifying things.

So I just got back from Paris and this is what I learned. (But obviously, I'm not an expert).

1. Macron is for the extremely rich in France. I kind of got the feeling he's their Mitt Romney.

2. He levied a fuel tax a short time ago, and almost everyone freaked out. The poor (and especially rural) population cannot afford this tax. It's my understanding that if you are a small business or work for yourself, you're penalized for that under the French system. So this fuel tax was like a flat tax, and it's disproportionally affecting the poor. People took to the streets to say, we'll go under if you make us pay this.

3. Macron was incredibly tone deaf at first and came back with philosophical what-ifs, and people started to freak out more.

4. Macron relented after the 2nd weekend of protests (that's when I was there). Thousands of people marched, and I saw some violence, but apparently, 300 people were arrested, and 2 people were killed. It did seem like there were a lot of immigrants demonstrating in the section of the protest that I saw.

5. After Saturday's protest, people came back to Macron with a list of 40 grievances they want the gov't to change, including lowering the retirement age. I do not know where this stands, but I saw from one of my European FB friends that Macron came on television today to acknowledge the mess the country's in. The protests from this past weekend were incredibly violent, and the gov't deployed 8000 police officers. They are heavily armed (which at first I didn't notice, being from the US).

The woman I stayed with in Paris said she doesn't think Macron will recover from this. He really fumbled the ball so to speak. I've heard rumblings that Russia had a hand in some of this as well. All I know is that it's turned into a major clusterf*ck.

[chonies]

Thanks, martinigirl. I really wasn't sure how to read things, and your post clarified some of the issues.

[Martini Girl]

I think it's confusing (at least it was for me) because in the US I feel it would be the Democrats protesting a flat, direct tax penalizing the poor, not conservatives.

My hostess reminded me that France is very systematic; everything has its place. You pay high taxes, but the system works well. You are taken care of. This year alone, Diesel has gone up 23%. And if you live outside Paris, public transportation isn't readily available (unless you live in another major city). People rely on their cars in small towns and the country. So this tax affects pretty much everyone.

One thing that folks are freaking out about is that on Saturday, protestors vandalized Marianne-- one of the most iconic symbols of France. It's one of the reasons they closed all of the main places of interest over the weekend-- protestors are going after the French identity, and it's my understanding they haven't done that before (but the Taliban did if you remember). There is a ferocity at play that no one was expecting.

I do love the fact the government is actually responding to the will of the people after the protests. I can't really see that happening in the US.

Another random observation. I saw almost no gas stations in Paris. It took me almost a week to make that discovery. Then I noticed that there was one or maybe two pumps on the side of the road, and cars just pulled over and filled up.

[biondetta]

May 10, 2006 23:08:44 GMT -4 Martini Girl said:

Another random observation. I saw almost no gas stations in Paris. It took me almost a week to make that discovery. Then I noticed that there was one or maybe two pumps on the side of the road, and cars just pulled over and filled up.

This doesn't surprise me. I think any time you're in a European city center (and I do mean the older part), you almost never see a gas station. At least in my experience living in Utrecht and now Bologna. There's a gas station not far from us, but it's also next to the bus station and is on one of the outer ring roads that marks the end of the old city center. It may have been different in the past, but now as they try to get rid of cars as much as possible from the old city centers, they essentially make it harder to have one by getting rid of unsightly gas stations, garages, and such.

[Deleted]

Effing Tories/Brxshit! Part 564 an ongoing saga...

In an article titled: Brexit: Tory resentment of Irish power within EU
Some Tory twat said "The Irish really should know their place."

We do, we have been an equal partner in EEC/EU since 1973 the same year UK and Denmark joined and The Tories have never quite come to terms with this and that EU will and has been looking after the smaller nations, as per end of article

And that is what alarms so many Tories: after centuries of troubled Anglo-Irish relations it is the smaller of the two islands which appears to be exercising greater power for the first time.


Edit Hee!Oops! Tess cant get out of her car at her meet with Angela Merkel

[Carolina]

Dec 11, 2018 14:49:52 GMT -4 @fitz said:

Effing Tories/Brxshit! In an article titled: Brexit: Tory resentment of Irish power within EU
Some Tory twat said "The Irish really should know their place."

Well, at least some anonymous "Tory grandee" Brexiter was finally honest. The Pro-Brexit Tories could barely even pretend to give a toss about Northern Ireland, Ireland and Irish peace. Hell, the other day one Tory MP, with no sense of shame or history, recommended a food blockade. It shows an ugliness towards Ireland and the view that it's still England's little colony to do with as it likes and everyone else- the EU- should stay out of it. I only wish the reporter had the balls to name his source.

[Deleted]

Ah yes Priti " threaten them with food shortages" Patel, I vented my spleen about her in Coping in Trumpistan(or in my case Brxshitstan) thread in All about Us.
Incidently Ireland is now in the top 20 food secure nations we can fend for and feed ourselves in these modern times


Edit Wednesday 10am GMT Theresa May to contest Confidence vote ttoday vote said to happen later this evening result should be known today 9pm GMT
This is second leadership challenge since brexit vote Dave Cameron now Tess its OK for MP a second vote on leader but not for public to have a chance to vote on the deal..ffs.

[kanding]

Dec 11, 2018 16:56:28 GMT -4 @fitz said:

Ah yes Priti " threaten them with food shortages" Patel, I vented my spleen about her in Coping in Trumpistan(or in my case Brxshitstan) thread in All about Us.

No problem. You can always eat the children! #swiftisrollinginhisgrave