Courtney Love

[zelda]

Mouse, could you elaborate on the Charlie Sheen thing. I wasn't aware that Sheen had such a rough life. What was hardwired into him?

[Deleted]

Jun 25, 2010 21:38:54 GMT -4 Mouse said:

Did it interview her parents or other family members? After reading the Seattle Weekly article linked upthread as well as her mother's book, I think Courtney's story isn't as black and white as she says it is. She had serious emotional problems even as a little girl. It sounds like they're simply hardwired into her, a la Charlie Sheen.

They did interview her sister and her step-father -- the one she was sent to live with after her mother couldn't (didn't want to?) deal with her. They both concurred that Courtney was shuffled around a lot which led to her feelings of abandonment. Even the step-father, who Courtney had nothing but love and praise for, admitted he sent her back to her mother after his new wife decided she didn't like Courtney (who was 10/11?) and made him choose between her and his daughter. Shortly after that she was sent to live in foster care.

Her father apparently gave her acid when she was 4 years old, so that may have had a lot to do with her mental issues beginning in childhood.

[Mouse]

Jun 26, 2010 5:45:17 GMT -4 zelda said:

Mouse, could you elaborate on the Charlie Sheen thing. I wasn't aware that Sheen had such a rough life. What was hardwired into him?

My point was that Charlie Sheen was probably born a sociopath. I don't know what his childhood was like, but his siblings all turned out okay. Charlie would've probably turned out the way he did no matter what. I suspect the same was true of Courtney. Linda Carroll wasn't mother of the year, but it sounds like Courtney was born the way she was.

I'm reminded of Nancy Spungen's mother, Deborah, who wrote a book about her daughter. Nancy was also born with serious mental problems, following a difficult birth. Unfortunately, it happens. And yes, Nancy was sent to live in a boarding school after her parents took her to a succession of therapists. I read Linda Carroll's book and was immediately reminded of Nancy's parents.

[rascal]

I'm sure she had a f-uped childhood but I too was shuffled around between two divorced parents (which came to halt after my mom died when I was young) In my younger years, I was sent to boarding school and spent many of my Christmas' at the school hall with all the other kids who's parents were 'too busy this year; maybe next'. When I was older my dad left me in the care of a woman that was never around... I mean NEVER around. I basically lived on my own since I was 13. My dad is richer than God, an alcoholic, a workaholic, and had no grasp on what it took to raise a child.

Guess what? I got over it.. it was hard and I had to deal with issues from it but I'm married to an incredible man with two great kids and I'm there picking them up from school everyday (hell, I even joined the school board). I cook them dinner and read them books and giggle at their silly stories.
I've had no guidance on this level, I got a bit before my mom passed, but overall, I'm learning this 'parenting' thing as I go.

I have very little understanding of someone like Courtney Love... very little.
The only thing I do like about her is her smarts... I do think she's a smart woman. Just f-uped on drugs and that's tragic but brought on by her own doing.
She's scrappy and determined and could have been a success story but instead she's pissed it away on drugs. Too bad for her and too bad for Francis who truly deserves more... who knows, maybe Francis will end up a bit like me. F-up parents but decided to take a different path in life.

[berlin]

I do think she's a smart woman. Just f-uped on drugs and that's tragic but brought on by her own doing.

It is so not fair to say that someone with drug abuse issues 'brought them about by their own doing" Addiction is not that simple and cannot be dismissed that easily as the addicts 'fault' and 'choice'.
Until one has been in the horrible grip of an obsession/compulsion to use drugs that is a physical urge that cannot be controlled by 'not wanting to' and one cannot choose not to use even knowing it is wrong and self harmful because the impulse takes over completely. You can NOT think or reason it away. I know all of this from personal experience and I have all the compassion in the world for Courtney especially who has had to battle her demons in public and be abused and blamed for it. And next people will say "but she choose to be in the public eye!" Sure she did,... but I guarantee you she did not choose to be an addict and it is not her fault.
It's easy to sit back and judge.

[nowyouseeme]

Jun 26, 2010 20:09:37 GMT -4 berlin said:

I do think she's a smart woman. Just f-uped on drugs and that's tragic but brought on by her own doing.

It is so not fair to say that someone with drug abuse issues 'brought them about by their own doing" Addiction is not that simple and cannot be dismissed that easily as the addicts 'fault' and 'choice'.
Until one has been in the horrible grip of an obsession/compulsion to use drugs that is a physical urge that cannot be controlled by 'not wanting to' and one cannot choose not to use even knowing it is wrong and self harmful because the impulse takes over completely. You can NOT think or reason it away. I know all of this from personal experience and I have all the compassion in the world for Courtney especially who has had to battle her demons in public and be abused and blamed for it. And next people will say "but she choose to be in the public eye!" Sure she did,... but I guarantee you she did not choose to be an addict and it is not her fault.
It's easy to sit back and judge.

She sure did choose to experiment with drugs though, which led to her uncontrollable addiction.

[Deleted]

But then, how far does the whole, "she had problems!" go? She's a parent, whose own daughter wants nothing to do with her. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for what's happened to her, but that doesn't mean I respect her.

Yes, she's an addict. Guess what? I've had a family full of drunks. I lost my godmother because of it. The saddest thing was that she was just starting to get sober when she got sick and because her body was still recovering from years of abuse, she wasn't able to fight it off. Another aunt (my grandmother's sister) still goes to AA, twenty years later. Addiction's fucked up, no doubt about it, but it's not an excuse.

She shouldn't keep getting a pass for being a complete and utter mess. Frances is damned lucky she didn't turn out like Courtney.


As for the Jezebel comments, THIS one was my favorite:

people are shocked, still, to this day when i saw courtney love is my role model. shes fucking brilliant.

Yikes.

[Deleted]

Jun 26, 2010 20:09:37 GMT -4 berlin said:

I do think she's a smart woman. Just f-uped on drugs and that's tragic but brought on by her own doing.

It is so not fair to say that someone with drug abuse issues 'brought them about by their own doing" Addiction is not that simple and cannot be dismissed that easily as the addicts 'fault' and 'choice'.
Until one has been in the horrible grip of an obsession/compulsion to use drugs that is a physical urge that cannot be controlled by 'not wanting to' and one cannot choose not to use even knowing it is wrong and self harmful because the impulse takes over completely. You can NOT think or reason it away. I know all of this from personal experience and I have all the compassion in the world for Courtney especially who has had to battle her demons in public and be abused and blamed for it. And next people will say "but she choose to be in the public eye!" Sure she did,... but I guarantee you she did not choose to be an addict and it is not her fault.
It's easy to sit back and judge.

One thing that they try to get across to addicts in rehab is taking responsibility for their own actions regardless of other circumstances. Yes, she had a rough childhood and mental problems. But many other people have the exact same issues as her and they don't become effed up drug addicts whose children don't want anything to do with them.* She very clearly doesn't want to get better or change, she refuses to take responsibility for her own actions and instead blames everyone else. So yes, it is her fault.

I do believe that addiction is a mental illness, but she and other addicts are ultimately the ones that decided to start boozing it up/shooting up/take pills/whatever. My mom's half-brother has a history of alcoholism on his mom's side of the family, so he decided not to drink at all because there was a big chance he'd develop a drinking problem. There are plenty of other people like this who are aware of their family histories so they take steps to avoid it.

*My dad was beaten by his stepfather and his mom kicked him out of the house at age 14, and he's been on his own ever since. He had PTSD after Vietnam and is also a bit of a hypochondriac among numerous other little mental issues. But he's not an addict and he's a damn good father and grandfather and a functioning member of society.

[WitchyPoo]

I don't know what it is but I have this belief in her. As much as I know she's fucked up her life and the life of her daughter (we'll see how Frances deals with that as gets older) I still believe in her. She's very intelligent and funny and has a primal instinct of survival that keeps her alive. Every time she destroys what she has (by her own hands) I still root for her to get back up and start kicking ass again.

[pathtaken]

If she hadn't offed Kurt maybe she wouldn't have to rely on drugs for release from guilt.