Alec Baldwin

[Ginger]

I don't think Alec being a producer has anything to do with the criminal charges.

The charges seem to be based on the prosecution believing that he pulled the trigger (even though he denies it), that he violated safety procedure by not checking the gun (or asking someone to check the gun) before handling it, and that he violated safety procedure by pointing the gun directly at someone.

I don't think it's going to help him at all that he went on TV and said five or six times that it wasn't his responsibility in any way to check the gun.

[cremetangerine82]

I'm just glad that, even if Alec Baldwin gets acquitted (though I hope for a conviction), he should carry the permanent stain of his haste and negligence taking a human's life. Not in his mind; he's so egotistical, he'll consider himself "the real victim".

[cubanitafresca]

Taking the problematic Baldwin out of the equation, I have to wonder how this case is going to impact the film/television industry.

There is a part of me that feels like if you put your hands on a gun you better know how to handle it and be able to tell if it's got live ammo in it. But is that even realistic for every actor? Isn't that the point of having people who are trained and responsible for the safety of the talent/crew?

[Ginger]

SAG is not happy about it.

The NY Times has an article about this issue. Archive

As the case moves forward, the norms and practices in the film and television industry will quite likely take center stage. Industry standards say that no one should be issued a firearm without being trained in safety, but that the responsibility for checking guns before each use lies with the prop master or designated weapons handler.

Kirk Acevedo, an actor who has worked extensively with weapons on shows like “Band of Brothers” and in the film “The Thin Red Line,” said it was typical for a film’s armorer, who is responsible for guns and ammunition on set, to open a gun and demonstrate to the actor that it was empty. Mr. Acevedo said that while he owned guns and had experience with them, many actors lacked the expertise to check firearms on their own. In some cases, he noted, the actors are children.

“It’s not me,” he said, referring to who has the responsibility. “It can’t be me. If you have never fired a weapon before, how would you know how to do all of that? For some people, it’s hard to even pull back the slide.”

SAG-AFTRA said in a statement that industry guidelines “do not make it the performer’s responsibility to check any firearm.”

{Prosecutor} Carmack-Altwies said she would not expect Mr. Baldwin to personally check every round that was loaded into the gun, but that she would expect him to make sure that someone had checked them.

[dragonflie]

I am still BAFFLED as to HOW a live round was even on set. Who ever allowed that to happen is responsible. (imho)

[lae]

Jan 23, 2023 1:31:19 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

I am still BAFFLED as to HOW a live round was even on set. Who ever allowed that to happen is responsible. (imho)

I could be incorrect but it’s my understanding that members of the crew took the guns out for live shooting practice (which they shouldn’t have done) and a bullet accidentally got left in. Then the armorer was inexperienced and overworked and the the union workers on set walked off due to concerns with treatment and safety and were replaced with non union workers so no one caught it. Then Baldwin didn’t check the gun before firing (to be frank, while I’m not an actor, I would not know a live bullet from a fake bullet and I don’t know how much an actor would know either). It sounds like it was an overarching theme that there were security issues on set and it became a perfect storm for tragedy.

Overall, it seems like whoever was running the production was negligent and failed to supervise and proved a safe environment. I guess that would be the producers but they aren’t all being charged and, like others said, it’s Alec the actor and not producer being charged so I don’t know. To me it sounds like it was a lot of peoples fault.

[dragonflie]

Thanks lae.

Yeah- that's crazy. To be honest, and this is all my opinion so its merit is pretty tiny ;p, I still would "blame" the armorer. It was their job to look after the weapons. If they were being taken out for real shooting (wtf!!) then the armorer should have said: nope- not ok. Then, if they chose not to do that it was their job to ensure all of the bullets were removed. That is literally their job. That it wasn't done properly (whether they are experienced or not, tired or not, etc) falls on them. That's why it'e negligence.

I agree too: I wouldn't know a real bullet from a fake one if you paid me a million dollars. I'm not sure it is every actors job to know about the make and model of every bullet in every gun.

[mrspickles]

Jan 23, 2023 12:10:15 GMT -4 lae said:

Jan 23, 2023 1:31:19 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

I am still BAFFLED as to HOW a live round was even on set. Who ever allowed that to happen is responsible. (imho)

I could be incorrect but it’s my understanding that members of the crew took the guns out for live shooting practice (which they shouldn’t have done) and a bullet accidentally got left in. Then the armorer was inexperienced and overworked and the the union workers on set walked off due to concerns with treatment and safety and were replaced with non union workers so no one caught it. Then Baldwin didn’t check the gun before firing (to be frank, while I’m not an actor, I would not know a live bullet from a fake bullet and I don’t know how much an actor would know either). It sounds like it was an overarching theme that there were security issues on set and it became a perfect storm for tragedy.

Overall, it seems like whoever was running the production was negligent and failed to supervise and proved a safe environment. I guess that would be the producers but they aren’t all being charged and, like others said, it’s Alec the actor and not producer being charged so I don’t know. To me it sounds like it was a lot of peoples fault.

Somewhere in the police report it says they found 5 live rounds on set. In Jensen Ackles's and Alec Baldwin's bandaleros, and in a box of supposedly dummy rounds. Could mean one of several things, but still terrifyingly reckless.

The quotes from SAG are interesting because other actors have cited SAG standards that REQUIRE each person who handles a gun on set to check.

[Ginger]

The armorer was charged was involuntary manslaughter as well. I believe she sued the supplier of the dummy bullets because she claims he sent over boxes that contained live ammo mixed in with the dummies. For live ammo to have gotten through, she did not check the dummies well enough (if at all).

There shouldn't have even been dummy bullets in the gun for this rehearsal, so there was lethal sloppiness in that regard too. The Assistant Director who plea bargained apparently picked up the gun off of a table, declared it to be empty without looking at it, and without communicating about it with the armorer.

Mar 14, 2005 2:10:14 GMT -4 dragonflie said:

I agree too: I wouldn't know a real bullet from a fake one if you paid me a million dollars. I'm not sure it is every actors job to know about the make and model of every bullet in every gun.

I don't think anybody is arguing that actors need to know that.

The prosecution is arguing that it is standard industry practice for the armorer or propmaster to open up the gun and demonstrate to the actor that the gun is either empty or that each of the rounds is a dummy. The armorer wasn't around and Alec didn't ask for her to come in and verify the safety of the gun. I think the big argument will be how much legal liability Alec has, if any, for failing to do that.

I can totally see a jury coming down on the side of the prosecution on this. Somebody said it well: If Alec had been told to put the gun up to his own head and pull the trigger, would he have made sure that the armorer proved to him first that the gun was empty? Of course he would have. But he was ok with pointing the gun at someone else - and pulling the trigger - without doing that.

[dragonflie]

Good points Ginger. It all sounds like a total mess.

I get the culpability if the expectation was/is that there are NO rounds (live or dummy) in the guns. That should be easy enough for anyone to check and should be standard practice around any weapon. At this point I don't even get why real guns are used at all on sets. If they can CGI other planets, basic backgrounds, etc I can't see why they couldn't make a whole lot of gun replicas that aren't capable of shooting at all.

My guess is this will become the new standard practice. No real guns on sets ever.