J.K. Rowling

[Coffeecakes]

An anorexic with body dysmorphia believes themselves to be overweight to obese, due to their body dysmorphia. Is that reality or their disorder talking? Trans people see themselves as another gender via their gender dysphoria. Again, that is a belief not a fact. If it was a fact, there would be no need to transition in the first place and have to constantly proclaim themselves real women and men. That would just be reality. And again, feeling like a woman? Because you like dolls, pink, etc? That is what womanhood is?

And no one is talking about taking anyone's rights. We are merely talking about how women who are already oppressed due to living in a patriarchy are being policed and replaced in our very own spaces. Trans girls/women are competing in girl's/women's sports and beating our asses left and right after being mediocre/pathetic competing as boys/men, to changing language to coddle, yes coddle their feelings by taking woman out of everything for basic things such as menstruation, cervical cancer, pregnancy, abortion, etc. And no one can say anything because then it is tRiGgErInG and LiTeRaL ViOlEnCe to trans people. Yet when they receive literal violence by men who beat, rape and kill them, crickets for them but all the smoke for blaming women for said violence, their lack of being able to date said men, etc.

Where are the trans men complaining about competing in men's sports, being transferred to men's prisons, policing men's language? They don't do that because they were socialized as women and know damn well they would get their asses handed to them in sports and raped in prison. If they tried to police men's language, they would get laughed out of the damn room by men. If they kept at it, their entire movement would die in 2.5 seconds. Only reason why women's language is getting changed is because we live in a patriarchy, men don't give a shit about us.

I am a woman of color, we have never been coddled, so I don't care to do it to bio men who continue to wield that male privilege even when identifying as women.

[leigh1983]

Mar 6, 2005 3:23:01 GMT -4 Coffeecakes said:

An anorexic with body dysmorphia believes themselves to be overweight to obese, due to their body dysmorphia. Is that reality or their disorder talking? Trans people see themselves as another gender via their gender dysphoria. Again, that is a belief not a fact. If it was a fact, there would be no need to transition in the first place and have to constantly proclaim themselves real women and men. That would just be reality. And again, feeling like a woman? Because you like dolls, pink, etc? That is what womanhood is?

They have to transition because their bodies for whatever reason didn't give them the XY chromosome that matches their identity. People keep bringing up biological sex, but not everyone develops in the same way as others. If you are missing one chromosome you will end up with a genetic disease. It takes 46 chromosomes to make a person. If I'm missing one or have too many does that not make me a person? It must be hard to understand that gender is fluid if you never had to deal with it, but don't let your bias get in the way of that. What makes you feel like a woman is different for someone else. You could probably write a list of what you that is, and I would probably not fit half the criteria. It's not just about wearing make-up or wearing pink. There are cis-men who wear pink and have long hair it doesn't make them less of a man.

I found some articles if anyone is interested in reading them about gender identity. Nobody is saying you should advocate for transgender rights. There is always going to be violence in the world, but I feel if we just tried to put ourselves in other people's shoes we could be more understanding of how our bias affects others around us.
I Let My Child Create Their Own Gender Identity. The Experience Has Been a Gift for Us Both

Transgender, Third Gender, No Gender: Part II

[ladyboy]

Gender dysphoria is addressed - lessened or gone completely - when a trans person gets to express their gender the way they need to. Anorexia doesn’t go away when an anorexic diets themselves down to 60 pounds. The two don’t compare in any way. And gender dysphoria is a term and concept primarily needed and used for insurance purposes - if there isn’t a “disorder” to code the billing to, treatment won’t get covered - so the DSM has to have to something in there. Not so long ago you would have found homosexuality in there too.

And I don’t understand why you are so hung up on trans people and sports. That’s not a reason to refuse to allow people to live according to their gender identity. It’s just a smokescreen of a “reason” for you to hide your bigotry behind. Frankly, if you were saying any of the things you’re saying about trans people about another group, you would probably be banned from this board. You are indeed talking about their rights. Take the idea of BLM- your approach is analogous to white people - in a position of power- saying sure, I support you, black people, but don’t go TOO far with this whole equality thing. Know your place.

Trans people have the right to live their life the way they want, and they have the right to express their gender identity authentically. Even if it upsets you or you disagree with it. You have the right to say hateful things about them, which would probably upset them if they came on this board, although it’s nothing trans people have not heard before. But you want to push your feelings/beliefs over them so they can’t transition, or if they do, you want to limit what they can do as a woman. Oh wait, as a “trans woman” because you’re going to label them so they are always identified as trans and therefore always at risk in our existing society. Maybe they could wear a badge to help identify them, like a yellow star or something?

[famvir]

I am out of the loop with the whole "people who menstruate" deal, but was interested in the current discussion, so I googled it.

The title over a photo of girls being shown a picture of sanitary hygiene (a sex ed type course), was "People Who Menstruate".

J. K. Rowling made a flip quip about how we used to have a word for these people who menstruate, (not quoting her, but you get the jest), was it wenons? womuds?

Thus began all the, "How do we define a woman? If I don't have children, a uterus, menstruate, am I not a woman?

There is a disconnect between the limitation of language, and changing social norms.

I suppose there will be a general acceptance of the proper language. Mail-person, server, and flight attendant to more gender neutral names, replacing mailman and hostess. Ms replacing Mrs or Miss. Native Americans, People of Color.

My personal bottom line is a trans woman is a woman. A trans man is a man. A trans woman uses the women's bathroom, is in the woman's prison, competes in woman's sports. The same is true of trans men/bathrooms/prisons/sports.

This will even out, in 20 years there will be few who question the process. I think it will be like the acceptance of gay relationships, part of the fabric that make our communities viable, diverse and interesting.

[Lwaxana]

Sept 19, 2020 20:15:09 GMT -4 Beyle said:

Sept 19, 2020 18:48:29 GMT -4 Mutagen said:

The real enemy of all of us is patriarchy...

Plenty of (White) men seem to enjoy watching the infighting between the rest of us over scraps while they continue to hold all the power, etc.

The worst part is that some of those who are oppressed help their cause without realizing it.

I think cis men get off on being able to express hate and violence towards women. The majority of the tweets in my TL about TERFs are from men saying they should get punched, put out of their misery, etc. Then they get applauded for it by trans women and their allies, who turn around and act shocked that those same men think it's okay to brutalize and murder them. Go figure.

Now it's the accepted belief to say, "Maybe there is a man brain and a woman brain," even though that's debatable, so that's just great. I can't wait for the "Your lady brain just wouldn't understand," shit to gear back up again, especially now that they have the argument, "Well, if you didn't have a lady brain then you would've obviously chosen to be a man."

It just feels like a lot of work is being undone.

[londonstill]

Because it is a lot of work being undone and by people who think they are being progressive.

Being a biological woman is not comparable to being a white person trying to dictate terms to BLM. Being a biological woman is the source of women’s oppression.

[magazinewhore]

Now it's the accepted belief to say, "Maybe there is a man brain and a woman brain," even though that's debatable, so that's just great

I'm sorry, but where is it acceptable (or I guess who is saying) there is a "man" or "lady" brain? That makes no sense. And gender is much less even cut and dried than it seems to our fifth-grade anatomy education. There are intersex people with varying degrees of chromosomes, hormones, and genitalia. Even many ancient civilizations acknowledged that. It's only in relatively moderns times that this binary has been so simplified, emphasized (and feared).

You all know that sex is "decided" at birth by doctors, and that it is a social construction (and basically a guess), right? We simplify it as a society by saying there are two categories, but a lot of people don't fall into those categories. Unfortunately those people have been pretty brutally repressed.

[syve]

Sept 20, 2020 17:31:13 GMT -4 Lwaxana said:

Now it's the accepted belief to say, "Maybe there is a man brain and a woman brain," even though that's debatable, so that's just great. I can't wait for the "Your lady brain just wouldn't understand," shit to gear back up again, especially now that they have the argument, "Well, if you didn't have a lady brain then you would've obviously chosen to be a man."

It just feels like a lot of work is being undone.

It was unfortunately, due to misogyny, acceptable to say that may times in the past, before trans issues were a blip on the radar. Misogynists are gonna be misogynists, just like rapists gonna be rapist, whether society accepts trans people or not. We can't not support a group of people because hypothetical future assholes may use it to oppress us. For the people who make arguements like that there will always be a reason to oppress us, to be misogynist. They don't need trans people for that.

We would be much better off standing in solidarity together and fighting for rights for all people rather than allowing this hate-filled alt right bullshit to divide us.

[Matilda]

Sept 20, 2020 23:59:59 GMT -4 magazinewhore said:

You all know that sex is "decided" at birth by doctors, and that it is a social construction (and basically a guess), right? We simplify it as a society by saying there are two categories, but a lot of people don't fall into those categories. Unfortunately those people have been pretty brutally repressed.

Sex is decided at conception by chromosomes, and is absolutely not a social construct. A small number of human beings are intersex, but the vast majority are male or female and cannot change that, in the same way that they cannot change the colour of their eyes. Gender is a social construct, but it needs to stop being conflated with sex.

Females have also been pretty brutally repressed for a pretty long time, which is why some of us want them to continue to have the few protections that they have been given by law.

[syve]

Sept 21, 2020 5:27:30 GMT -4 Matilda said:

Females have also been pretty brutally repressed for a pretty long time, which is why some of us want them to continue to have the few protections that they have been given by law.

But what protections are at risk because of trans rights?