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Post by Hamatron on Sept 9, 2014 10:15:52 GMT -4
There was no point for Leno to uphold the ban on Joan anyway. Carson hated Leno and wanted Letterman. Leno pretty much snuck into the spot through buttering up the suits at the station while Carson had endorsed Letterman and expected him to be his successor. Awkward. So yeah, Leno has always been as ass.
There's so much petty drama surrounding those late night shows, it's sort of ridiculous.
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Post by famvir on Sept 9, 2014 11:13:47 GMT -4
Leno also continued that bit about not having anyone on his show that booked Letterman, trying to force Letterman off the air. When it came out, Leno blamed his manager, saying he was lily white and innocent and knew nothing, he was BFF with Letterman. He would never do anything like that!
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Post by Neurochick on Sept 9, 2014 11:15:41 GMT -4
From what I've heard, while Joan was the permanent stand-in, they had no real intention of passing the Tonight Show to her after Johnny left. That's why she went with her own show. In an interview, Joan said that when the deal was solidified, Johnny was the first person she called so she could personally tell him. She told him and he hung up on her. His assertion about about finding out about it in the news might have been horsecrap on his part. Either way, Johnny was a vengeful little bitch. He wasn't her manager. Joan shouldn't need to ask him permission to make whatever professional decisions she thinks is right for her career and him undermining her like that was just a total dick move. I've always hated Leno for continuing Johnny's tantrum. I remember when all of this was going down. My understanding was that Joan knew Johnny wasn't passing the show onto her which was why she got her own show on FOX. I really don't think that Joan told FOX, "I want to take Carson down." FOX probably wanted her to go against Carson, thinking people would tune into her show instead of Carson. David Letterman, who also used to guest host, knew he wasn't getting the show either, which was why he went to CBS; the reason CBS didn't put him on against Carson was because the folks at CBS were smarter, knew Letterman would have a younger audience, and figured going on after Carson was a good idea, which it was. I think though, that Joan Rivers' show screwed Arsenio Hall, whose syndicated show was on at 11:30 in some FOX markets, FOX pushed his show back to 12:30, I believe, which killed it. But that was FOX's decision, not Joan's.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 18, 2024 12:05:34 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -4
There's so much petty drama surrounding those late night shows, it's sort of ridiculous. I know, it's my favorite soap opera. I'm kind of disappointed in the lack of drama with the current round of changes.
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celerydunk
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,521
May 3, 2005 21:57:59 GMT -4
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Post by celerydunk on Sept 9, 2014 15:40:46 GMT -4
It says everything to me that Carson didn't send Joan condolence flowers when Edgar killed himself. At the very least, he could have had his secretary send something to Melissa.
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Post by angelaudie on Sept 9, 2014 16:02:30 GMT -4
Leno also continued that bit about not having anyone on his show that booked Letterman, trying to force Letterman off the air. When it came out, Leno blamed his manager, saying he was lily white and innocent and knew nothing, he was BFF with Letterman. He would never do anything like that! Letterman told Oprah that Leno was simultaneously the funniest and most insecure person he's ever met. Sounds about right. Except for the funny bit. That's just Letterman being kind. PBS (I think) once aired a bio on Johnny Carson. Even his closest friends struggled to find nice things to say about him. It was basic variations of "He was an ass. An endearing and loyal ass but still an ass." Joan was part of it and oddly enough she had the nicest things to say about him. I got the sense she really wished they could have reconciled but Carson was just that cold. Once he cut you off that was it. In many respects, Joan got the last laugh though. Joan was still relevant when she died. Can't say the same thing about Carson. I do find all this gossip about these petty rivalries between these talk show hosts interesting. Any good books or documentaries on the topic?
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Post by chonies on Sept 9, 2014 16:34:52 GMT -4
Actually, to me, Carson not sending flowers or a note or anything seems kind of normal. On the surface, it looks shitty, but sometimes it's hard to know if intentions would be understood. Several years ago, my ex told me his mother's husband died. I was still trying to minimize contact with the ex, and didn't know what to do, so I did nothing.
However, in context with everything else, Carson sounds incredibly cold and probably thought "good" in a cackling voice when he heard about Edgar.
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celerydunk
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,521
May 3, 2005 21:57:59 GMT -4
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Post by celerydunk on Sept 9, 2014 18:03:15 GMT -4
I think sending/not sending flowers to someone you had a prior romantic relationship with is a bit different then a friend and colleague. When my ex's father died he called me to talk about it but I didn't send flowers. There are a lot deeper romantic feelings with an ex. My arch enemy at work got really sick and I sent a card. I figured she could use all the good vibes she could get and the consequences of her misinterpreting that card as a sign of friendship was a chance I was willing to take.
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Post by chonies on Sept 9, 2014 20:13:59 GMT -4
Believe me, I understand. I was imagining something like Carson wondering if he sent a card or a note, would Joan, with whom he had public bad blood, try to exploit it? Yes, it's real-person fiction, but it rang a bell.
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Post by Ninja Bunny on Sept 9, 2014 20:38:16 GMT -4
I remember when all of this was going down. My understanding was that Joan knew Johnny wasn't passing the show onto her which was why she got her own show on FOX. I really don't think that Joan told FOX, "I want to take Carson down." FOX probably wanted her to go against Carson, thinking people would tune into her show instead of Carson. David Letterman, who also used to guest host, knew he wasn't getting the show either, which was why he went to CBS; the reason CBS didn't put him on against Carson was because the folks at CBS were smarter, knew Letterman would have a younger audience, and figured going on after Carson was a good idea, which it was. I think though, that Joan Rivers' show screwed Arsenio Hall, whose syndicated show was on at 11:30 in some FOX markets, FOX pushed his show back to 12:30, I believe, which killed it. But that was FOX's decision, not Joan's. I don't think she wanted to take Carson down when she cinched the deal, if anything she probably thought he'd be proud that someone he mentored landed her own show. (How wrong she was, sadly.) It's just that she went as far as she could with NBC and needed to make a lateral move to advance her own career, which she had every right to do. As for flowers, it depends on the ex. I found out one ex died and I called his mom and brought flowers. We rekindled our friendship and we've gotten together just about every week for the last four years. If another certain ex died, I'd only want to know where the grave was so I could dance on it. I wouldn't send flowers to his mother or anyone else in his family, even though they were nice to me. It would just be too weird.
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