Sin City

[angel17987]

flamethrower said:

Kate Bosworth fans everywhere are saying that Kate was the first choice for either Gail or Nancy. I know, I laughed too.

BWAH!! Ow.Must.Stop.Laughing.It.Hurts.
Seriously, how would that work, one scene where she has to get beat up and she'd shatter into a millon pieces. I can't see her as a stripper or a prostitute either.
I thought the casting was good and that's saying something because I wasn't a fan of half the people in it.

[huntergrayson]

I can't tell which is more disturbing, that Kate could've been in this or that there are Kate Bosworth fans.

Agreed on the casting. I think casting is one of the most important things that makes or breaks a film and this one nailed it. It's interesting because given the format of the movie, all the characters pretty much have to be archetypes. So all the actors were used for their "essence," if you will.

Sometimes it's obvious (Clive is the sexy! Brittany is the manic slutty!), sometimes it's not so much (Frodo is the creepy? Rory Gilmore is a whore?), but that's the magic of casting directors.

Does anyone else have the feeling that this will be the Chicago to Sky Captain's Moulin Rouge. Meaning that the larger success of one movie will cause shifts in filmmaking and the movie industry (musicals are back! digital backdrops are the future!) while the earlier film paved the way for the groundbreaking. FWIW, I think that Moulin Rouge and Sin City are the better films because they are more original and groundbreaking -- esp. since this flick seems to be inventing a new visual language, which is a mean achievement considering it is an adaptation.

Now to throw in some more fodder for discussion: As much as I loved the film, I kinda wished Miramax had released it NC-17 for two reasons. The first being a big, final F.U. to Disney. The second is that I think it's time that the sex/violence double standard needs to be blown open. And that's only going to happen by releasing a mainstream film, with big names, as an NC-17. Stylized violence is still violence -- breasts galore are fine -- but throw in a male member or depiction of adult sexuality? Banned, censored, cut, etc. I am by no means a prude, but the fact that I saw someone take his 10ish year old son to this film is obscene in so many ways. Can anyone tell me why The Dreamers merits a NC-17, but a film with multiple dismemberments gets an R?

That said, apparently Bob & Harvey are going to release the four-hour, NC17 Kill Bill (vols 1/2 combined), which is awesome.

[jadefox]

I loved this movie. I thought it was perfect, and I've never seen so much as a frame of Frank Miller's books. Best believe I will now, though. I was freaked out by the ultra-violence, which I covered in detail in the Disturbing Moments thread. But thank God for visionary and fearless directors like Miller and Rodriguez. Because of their ballsiness, this movie kicked major ass.


But honestly? It's a tad OT, but I wanna know when this is gonna happen:

That said, apparently Bob & Harvey are going to release the four-hour, NC17 Kill Bill (vols 1/2 combined), which is awesome.

[doktord]

"Sin City" is a remarkable technical achievement. It features wonderful art direction. Many of the performances are of a high level for this sort of material. But I found the movie distasteful. I wanted very much to like it, but I couldn't. My wife wanted to walk out, but stayed because she knew I wanted to see the ending. A friend who saw it with his brother says he's glad he didn't take his wife.

I have been reading "Sin City" since Marv first appeared in Dark Horse Presents #50 back in 1991. I very much enjoy the stories of Marv, Dwight, Hartigan, "Blue Eyes," the Old Town women and even Wallace of the little-regarded "Hell and Back" story. I find pleasure in the rawness of the stories and the noir-hits-the-fan, over the top depiction of the characters and their relationships.

The movie, however, takes the strong men protecting threatened women theme of the stories to an unpleasant level. Frank Miller is a great fan of the work of Mickey Spillane -- I know this because I saw Miller fawning over Spillane at a ChicagoCon in the mid-nineties -- but what Miller borrowed from Spillane to put on the pages of "Sin City" comics becomes, on celluloid, demeaning to the female characters.

When reading prose it's easy to take that step back from the words to say to one's self, "That Spillane surely has a twisted view of the male-female relationship." Reading the "hotter" medium of comics, the sexism and exploitation of female nudity that are integral parts of "Sin City" are harder to set aside, whether or not one is aware of Miller's actual views on gender relationships, but the harsh black and white artwork distances us from the work.

Looking at Carla Gugino walking around nearly nude in front of Mickey Rourke, or the girls of Old Town with their equipment hanging out, the message, even in black and white, hits the viewer in the face. These women are displayed as if they are prizes for the men who must come to their rescues. Though the Old Town women are presented as powerful, the power of the actresses derives only from their boobs and butts. Without the vivid sexual imagery, no woman in the film would be remembered except for "deadly little Miho."

On a completely different note: Yes, Dwight is a "detective" to the extent that he worked as a photographer for a private detective, sneaking around shooting pictures of husbands cheating in motel rooms. This was in "A Dame to Kill For," the second "Sin City" story.

Dwight's life before that is largely a mystery, though he did have a passionate affair with a woman named Ava, had a temper problem of such dimensions that he had to consciously control himself, and shaved his head. He was beaten and shot nearly to death during "A Dame to Kill For" and had cosmetic surgery to repair the damage to his face and create a new identity. Thus, "a killer with a new face" worried about being stopped by the police.

[doktord]

Oh -- one more thing: Today I picked up my 18-inch, monochrome, "beat up" Marv figure with motion-activated speech. Wahoo!

[Deleted]

That was a great post, Doktor D.

[chiqui]

I really want to see this for the CGI and art direction, but think I'd be turned off by the storylines. Damaged he-men rescuing imperiled exotic dancers/hookers. Yawn, yawn. It's been done before for ages, both in comics and other places, so why subject yourself to cliches?

Maybe I'll just rent it when it comes out and turn the sound off.

[johnboysmole]

My husband and I have been reading the Sin City graphic novels and we saw the movie finally and we've had conversations about what you spoke of in your post DoktorD.

I loved the movie because it was basically an exact onscreen representation of these incredible graphic novels.

It is true that the women appear to be exploited used and it did kind of bother me that they were segregated into "Old Town" and that was the only place they held any power. But I don't think of it is as black and white (no pun intended) as men rescuing victimized women. Though referring to Miho, perhaps the deadliest woman, in a diminutive way it did seem to downplay her power, I did think of Dwight and Gail as equals. They came to each others' aids at different points.

I guess I just appreciate the story for what it is. I'm not offended by the representation of women. It's just part of what drives the story along. I can't accept that the movie is comprised of simply the old woman-weak/man-strong theme either. Everyone in the movie is damaged and victimized in one way or another. It's more complicated than that.

There was so much going on thematically. The good guys weren't entirely good and the bad guys were worse than you can imagine. The powerful people were incredibly corrupted and the characters were fighting against it any way they could. This was their reality and the only power women had in this dark, dark world was their sexuality.

Either way, it's dark, vulgar and I feel like you're supposed to be somewhat revolted by what happens. When a movie or book creates such a visceral reaction, it kicks all kinds of ass in my book. It is simply a great story, and I loved it.

[Deleted]

There was so much going on thematically. The good guys weren't entirely good and the bad guys were worse than you can imagine. The powerful people were incredibly corrupted and the characters were fighting against it any way they could.

I think that's what I liked about the heroes. They could be just as twisted/homicidal as the villains.

[huntergrayson]

I thought of something else thematic, but not really brought to the forefront: With the fact that all three stories were so alike , the constant VOs and they even meet the same fate of death (I dunno if Dwight could've survived), the film seemed to be making the point that the "heroes" were interchangeable. It's like no matter who you are, it doesn't matter because of what the city will do to you --- make you just as horrible as everyone else (the villains).