Johnny Depp

[cubanitafresca]

Ginger I never said she wasn't horrible. I just think he's worse.

[Nysha]

Dec 30, 2015 21:40:13 GMT -4 cubanitafresca said:

Ginger I never said she wasn't horrible. I just think he's worse.

I think they're both horrible, but I think she's worse. However, I will admit that that belief is based on my own childhood physical and verbal abuse. The verbal abuse has permeated my entire sense of self a lot more than the physical abuse. Herd so reminds me of my abuser who would just go on and on all the time whether they were angry or 'just joking'.

[batmom]

I couldn't give two shits about either of them but I'm super pissed that this has completely undermined the movement to believe women. Fuck Amber Herd for that.

[Ridha]

Aug 19, 2022 11:17:07 GMT -4 batmom said:

I couldn't give two shits about either of them but I'm super pissed that this has completely undermined the movement to believe women. Fuck Amber Herd for that.

Believe Women was always an intrinsically unfair and flawed concept. It should be listen, examine stories, weigh up credibility (and credibility whether in a court of law is based off a few different; sometimes that comes with hard evidence and sometimes not), and treat allegations soberly without any pre-conceptions of pre-existing biases towards either side or gender. Believe Women was and is extremely problematic as it normalises and even glorifies both pre-conceptions and biases rather than a fair hearing. If this case showcased that, and caused the pendulum to swing more to the middle (rather than the extreme patriarchy side, and then to the absolute other extreme in recent years, both equally problematic and unfair) then it’s a net positive for that reason alone.

[hellsbells]

If a friend tells me she was assaulted, I will 100% believe her. Without a doubt. A court of law has different set of rules for finding guilt, as it should.

I tend to believe women if they come forward with accusations. But I have never sat on a jury for a case involving violence against a women. I would also be capable of following the strict guidelines inherent to finding guilt in a legal sense.

[batmom]

But if you don't believe women, which is where we've been for the last few hundred years, you don't even get to the investigation point. You need to start from a point of assuming a truth, not dismissing out of hand. Where we have been--a starting point of thinking women lie or exaggerate-- is what has been unfair.

[cremetangerine82]

Aug 22, 2022 10:38:52 GMT -4 batmom said:

But if you don't believe women, which is where we've been for the last few hundred years, you don't even get to the investigation point. You need to start from a point of assuming a truth, not dismissing out of hand. Where we have been--a starting point of thinking women lie or exaggerate-- is what has been unfair.

Thank you, batmom. As someone who's had to call the cops on my dad (drunk and waving a loaded rifle), the cops probably took his side, not mine. It's probably the only reason he didn't go to jail that night is because he probably convinced the cops I was in the wrong.

Same things happened when Nicole Brown Simpson called the cops on OJ, and others calling the cops on Brian Laundrie for abusing Gabby Petito in public.

You can guess who later killed these women...

Amber Heard sucks, but she can be a terrible person and a victim of domestic abuse from Depp.

[ahah]

Aug 22, 2022 10:38:52 GMT -4 batmom said:

But if you don't believe women, which is where we've been for the last few hundred years, you don't even get to the investigation point. You need to start from a point of assuming a truth, not dismissing out of hand. Where we have been--a starting point of thinking women lie or exaggerate-- is what has been unfair.

I think there is a difference of interpretation among people of what "believing" involves. You make a great point in the impact of failing to investigate because of an instinct not to believe. But the tag line removes some nuance from the process to leap from believing prompting an investigation to respond properly to believing meaning an investigation is not even necessary, lets just jump to sentencing. It's the problem with a lot of tag lines - there's no room for nuance.
I think it is a mistake to automatically assume if a woman says it, it's true and the assaulter is guilty. But you're right - we MUST move beyond the days when accusations were not even met with an investigation.

[batmom]

Very true. It's too bad that "stop assuming women are liars" doesn't have a better ring to it.

[Ladybug]

I remember reading She Said and Catch and Kill all about the investigative journalism that busted the Me Too movement open. Jodi Kantor, Megan Twohey, and Ronan Farrow all took the women's claims seriously, but they had to find corroborating sources to back them up. They talked to people, gathered proof, found evidence. In some cases, there wasn't enough so the accounts of those women didn't make it into the books. There are journalistic standards and civil and criminal burdens of proof that have to be met. Otherwise you are destroying lives and careers based on little more than gossip. It went from "take these accusations seriously" to "believe all women, at all times, no matter what, even if it can't be proven true." That's not justice, that's revenge. I understand the desire for it after decades, centuries, millennia, etc., but I'd rather work toward justice.

Amber did a real disservice to women who are legitimately suffering from abuse. And many believe that she did suffer abuse at the hands of Johnny Depp. But the stories she told on the stand begged belief when you looked at other evidence. Some may say she was lying outright or at least vastly exaggerating what actually happened to make Johnny look like an abuser. This is my opinion based on watching days of her testimony, cross examination, other witness testimony, and hearing both her and JD on tape. I didn't dismiss her claims out of hand. They just could not be backed up with credible evidence, IMO. I believed her when her claims came out, but listening to her testimony in detail made me change my mind. Doesn't mean that I think JD is some saint or wounded starchild.