Diddy

[preach2thechoir]

SnarkyFish said:

I do not agree. Black kids don't buy Puff Daddy!! and never have!solo ventures? No.

IMHO PShitty is merely the tip of the iceberg and since this is his thread I merely use him as one of the originators of what has spiraled out of control in the world of commercial hip hop. You have a right to your opinion about Cosby and whomever else, but as far as I am concerned while Cosby is a hypocrit much of what he says about hip hop and this generation of Black youth sadly confirms/reaffirms too many of the negative stereotypes. Those who turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the damaged, self loathing images portrayed of Black youth by commercial hip hop overall further disenfranchising poor Black children are the ones that should be ashamed, again PShitty is merely one of many.

I watched a program on BET with stupid ass Damon Dash stating that because this generation was not alive during the civil rights movement they were not aware that they were demeaning our race . . . . uh duh, how about reading a book about your heritage and the civil rights movement at least during Black history month. Its that very ignorance that is the reason he and others seem to think calling each other niggas, bitches and hoes is cool, proving ignorance is not always bliss.

*Steps back off soapbox*

[snarkyfish]

P Diddy is not the all encompassing elected representive of all Black Culture. Or even of just HipHop Culture and HipHop History. Black Culture is very diverse and about a lot more than P Diddy.

Anyone who thinks he is must be out of the loop and doesn't really know very much about hiphop. Or black culture. Or black people today.

Puff Daddy doesn't represent me. Or anybody. He's got a business making commercial records. And he's not a great rapper. His solo ventures are not hiphop classics.

Puff Daddy was never meant to be that deep. And he's not making any political statement about blacks.

I personally think Bill Cosby's ranting and then obvious hypocrisy with the way he conducts himself are more publicly embrassing and disappointing than any Puff Daddy song.

And at least P Diddy - aside from the changing of his nickname of choice occasionally - has never pretended to be anything more than who he is.

And if you've heard Puffy's tunes on the "bitches and hoes" issue I don't recall being bombarded by that in his songs. There are blatantly more obvious targets to focus on on that particular issue. Like Eminem. Making his calling his mother a B is a danger to the white race and reflects badly on white men. And we should now jump to the conclusion that that's what white guys do and they all hate their mothers.

But if you don't watch TV or listen to any hiphop one is not likely to know. In fact that may be why you think that Puffy Daddy is still as relevant as he was maybe 10 or so years ago. IIRC Puffy hasn't even made a solo record in years. He's mainly focused on his fashion line, producing, doing the old acting project, encouraging the youth to vote, rasing money for charity events and living the good life throwing parties and hanging out with the fashionista set, attending fashion shows and hanging out on yachts in Europe. If Diddy seen much at all these days most of the time it more for his parties, his socialising and or his suits rather than anything else.

It's funny but I have never heard as many white celebrities being accused of "bringing down their race" or representing a whole diverse group of people and giving them all a bad image. They get judged as individuals on a standalone case by case basis.

I think it very sad non-progressive that black people are still like that. And is there only one way black people are supposed to be?

Maybe the manistream thinks Puffy is more culturally relevant than he actually is. If we want to zone in on hiphop it would make more sense to focus on Jay Z or Eminem - yeah, he's very popular and probably is the biggest selling rapper more recently - or maybe the cultural influence left behind by those Tupac and or Biggie? They're long dead and they are a lot more relevant when thinking rappers than Puff. Puffy was a producer. He didn't just do "rap". Puff Daddy was responsible for producing the first two of Mary J Blige's albums. Right now he seems to be putting together pop by numbers RnB boybands and solo acts. He had 112 way back. He produces Mario Wayans etc. And for the thankfully limited time he was rapping he didn't even write most of his lyrics.

Also I thought that the majority of sales of hiphop records are to white folk? So is it really a black issue or a white issue? If it is an issue at all that is?

[Deleted]

SnarkyFish said:

You must not have read the pigeon story on the old thread. It was funny as hell.

Apparently Puff had some pigeons caged for half the night at one of his parties and the birds just didn't look comfortable or happy. The guests at the party started chanting "Free the pigeons!!!" or some shit. Ha! I bet the only chanting Puffy expected then would have been for him to spin some records as he is accustomed to doing and just make the crowd dance. Not some radical anarchist outcry about him being one a cruel sonofabitch to have had an idea to use pigeons/doves in his party special effects.

Thanks for clearing that up, Snarkyfish. I couldn't picture it either.

[yameleejones]

Puff would like people to believe he's just another "ghettoass nigga from da streets". That's just not true. He doesn't represent "tha hood" . Not in any real or meaningful way. And by his background his not eligible anyway. Poor and struggling mother does not automatically equal legit hoodness and/or real street cred.

I've never heard puffy claiming to be a "ghettoass nigga from the streets". IIRC, he's never admitted to robbing anyone or selling drugs(ala Jay-Z and B.I.G.). Does speaking with slang make one a "ghettoass nigga from the streets"?

Apparently Puff had some pigeons caged for half the night at one of his parties and the birds just didn't look comfortable or happy. The guests at the party started chanting "Free the pigeons!!!" or some shit. Ha! I bet the only chanting Puffy expected then would have been for him to spin some records as he is accustomed to doing and just make the crowd dance. Not some radical anarchist outcry about him being one a cruel sonofabitch to have had an idea to use pigeons/doves in his party special effects.

Puffy was just paid to be the host of the party. He had nothing to do with the penguins being there.

[snarkyfish]

That clears that one up then. Why were the guests blaming him? Or did the article get it wrong and they were not chanting at him but whoever put the pigeons there?

[preach2thechoir]

SnarkyFish said:

I do not agree. Black kids don't buy Puff Daddy!! and never have! Since when? Noone is attracted to him or even mentions him. It's only on this thread that I get reminded that Puffy's out there perpertrating and being a fraud to the mainstream white masses. Otherwise no black people - or young black kids especially - pay attention to him. They remember Biggy and Tupac and shit and that is only if they are supa-obsessed with the hiphop industry history. But "We Aint going Nowhere!"? and other Puffy solo ventures? No.

Noone cares about Puffy outside the mainstream. And if any fool is left thinking otherwise they better be woken up and informed it's all a myth!

Again, if you read my post I distinctly stated that Puff is merely the tip of the iceberg. The fact that mainstream America pays attention to him, 50 and the rest is exactly my point. Whether you accept it or not they are the yardstick which the majority of not only white America but the rest of the world will measure all young Black American males.

You are entitled to your opinion and your beliefs but the reality of the situation is overall commercial hip hop has made the deplorable appear to be the acceptable norm and the standard of all who are Black and living in America.

[snarkyfish]

I love hiphop. I grew up on it and I know enough about it to know it is born of positivity. And that what you are fixated upon is superficial. And probably born of an ignorance of what hiphop is, let alone what it's about.

And people who see 50 cent making a fool of himself on MTV and automatically assume the black guy who just graduated from college making an application to work is the stereotype they studied off TV from "those rappers!" wouldn't that person be called a bit racist? Whether that ill-informed person is white or black him/herself - anyone who goes around blanketly making assumptions about young black youth based on hiphop stereotypes is being prejudiced. Most of the youngsters I see dressed like Fiddy or some other lame ass no talent are actually whiteboys.

And as for this attitude that is presumably prevelant in the white society against young blacks due to "hiphop", I can happily say I have never experienced it. Anybody who can act appropriately in appropriate situations and is well spoken enough to put their views across, has the education and/or experience IMO gets given a fair crack of the whip. And I've never met a job application that asked me what my favorite popular music was.

And besides that. Who listens to just one "type" of music anyway? I can listen to somwhing vintage from The Roots, then some Tupac then some Nina Simone, mellow to some Miles Davis follow that with Mozart's Madame Figaro then just go on a classical music binge. Most people I know are like that. Diverse in their tastes.

Cause it's all music - and it's all good.

Wasn't jazz music kind of scandalous way back when because you had some uppity negro folks saying people like Miles and John Coltrane were just a bunch of heroine junkies making noise not music. That they're music was a sin against negros and God alike or whatever baloney? I see this misunderstanding by the generation of people who never listen to hiphop and judge it anyway! - to be the same kinda shit. Miles and Coltrane and Charlie Parker and Billie Holiday are respected for their music. They are often seen as black heros of their era. Not written off - even though it is the truth they were all drug addicts at at least one point in their lives and that drug taking was actually a fashion amongst jazz musicians at the time and very prevalent and that it was very well known too.

Saying all hiphop (which is probably a more diverse genre that most realise) represents is some bitches and hoes and some Crystal may as well say all Jimmy Hendrix, or the Rolling Stones, or the Beatles represent is illicit drug taking and ODs and that their music promotes drugs and is good for nothing else.

This is a hot topic worthy of broad discussion that really should not be thrashed out under "a Puffy thread".

There must be a hiphop thread lurking around here somewhere.

Again, if you read my post I distinctly stated that Puff is merely the tip of the iceberg.

I did read your post(s). You also said the reason why you mentioned it here was becasue you were talking about Puffy and this is the Puffy thread - or words to that effect. So I responded to that assertion.

Anyway if you want to tackle what your see as your iceberg The HipHop thread would be where to do it.

Otherwise Preacher let's just call a truce and agree to disagree. I will never see what you are saying (beyond taking it as simply some "generational issues" on your part) and by the sounds of it you can not get to grips with what I'm trying to tell you either.

BTW asserting as you did that Puffy somehow represents hiphop and/or represents it's general image (even in the shallow terms of the mainstream) is like asserting that Jessica Simpson represents Blue Grass and real Country music.

[duskwolf]

I gotta say I'm torn on the new "Making the Band"

While I agree with P-Diddley-Doodley that there was no real talent present, he still seems to think that he can just go on and create a band that was more successful than O-Town and the ridiculously-named Da Band.

P-D-D, let me ask you a question: If your show is on MTV and other making-the-star outlets are on Fox and UPN (which, btw, are not pay cable channels), do you really believe that the cream of the crop of would-be singers are going to appear on YOUR show? Don't you think they'd get better publicity on channels that consistently garner more viewers (maybe not so much UPN as FOX, but I think you get the idea)? Don't you also think that if a person shows up as a single person and not as a band, he or she wants to be a solo artist? Why would they want to be part of your group, when they could achieve more publicity and the opportunity to sing unfettered by a group, hell more even on Survivor than they can on YOUR show?

[yonkerschik]

I'm going to try to watch MTB 3... it's drama filled according to the previews.
------

Ok, PShitty is making a tribute for, you guessed it, Johnnie Cochran.

[diciembre]

Ok, PShitty is making a tribute for, you guessed it, Johnnie Cochran.

P-Doody and his fug girl Kim Pooter make me sick, always trying to steal the friggin spotlight. He needs to just sit down somewhere and shut the fuck up.