Nicole Kidman

[plush]

gee said:

As I said, she's caught between a rock and a hard place. I don't know that she believes he's such a good father; in fact, it's a contradiction in terms if, as I suspect, he is teaching them that she is a suppressive whom they must avoid. A good father wouldn't do that. Just because he has the financial means to do whatever for them doesn't make him a good father.

No I agree, that giving them everything they want doesn't make him a good father, but then we're looking at this from the outside. Connor and Isabella probably aren't old enough to question their father's religious beliefs and to them he may be a great father. If Nicole thought him to be so horrible, wouldn't she have fought to have them with her more often so they could see and experience different things besides what they should according to Clambo doctrine? I thought they had joint custody, but it seems like Tom is the sole parent and Nicole gets the kids once in a while. And again, if she did fight, in this day and age, wouldn't we have heard something about it? No, I think they reached an agreement when they divorced. The kids will be raised Scienos and Nicole agreed to that for whatever reason. Of course, when she signed the dotted line maybe it wasn't such a crazy idea since only in the last 3 years or so have we known how crazy and obssessed Cruise is, and maybe so does Nicole. Again, for this very reason, I don't want to judge her too harshly because who knows what the ins and outs are in that relationship and what the circumstances were when she divorced. I just want her to include her kids in the interviews more often. Like when she says, I'd love to give birth, can't she add something how she's already a mother to two wonderful children but she'd love to have the experience of giving birth, yadda yadda... or say Keith and my children are the most important people in my life. When she says away from family, I think she means her parents, Keith and her sister because she's rarely in L.A.

[Deleted]

My mom married and had FOUR other children during her war to get us back, and my stepfather hated us because we weren't his. Thank God she didn't have to do this in the public eye. Really, I don't understand what y'all expect her to say to prove to y'all that she loves her children. Could be that it is so painful that she just can't publicly discuss it.

None of the cons posted proves she isn't fighting for them. The pros I've mentioned don't prove that she is, but we have no proof whatsoever that she isn't.

And, as Forrest Gump would say, that's all I've got to say about that.

[Deleted]

I don't know what to make of Nicole.

If she married Tom for love, then all this business with Scientology and the raising of children within this cult probably couldn't have been foreseen and she's probably at a loss as to what to do now.

But if she married Tom with a contract and an eye to improving her career and then chose to bring adopted kids into it...then I don't see how she's any less bizarre in the the head or lacking in integrity than Katie.

From the time I can remember Scientology was always seen as extremely weird so it's not like she can feign ignorance on the matter or claim she didn't know what she was getting into when she married Cruise and agreed to the contract (that is, if there was a contract involved.)

[ernestine]

I do believe she loves them dearly, but I also get the feeling that she's been rejected by them so many times that she doesn't reach out much anymore. I'm sure she regrets that they are being raised as Scientologists but she just avoids worrying about it by putting it out of her mind.

I think it's very telling that by her own words, Keith is the most important person in her life. Not her family, not her husband and her children, but only her new husband. All she does is talk about wanting a new baby and she shuts down talk of her old babies immediately. It seems quite painful to her and like she's let them go. I'm sure she hopes to get them back when they are adults, but right now, she seems very distant from their life, whether by choice or by force. Sad, really.

[Deleted]

Also, we have to take into account that Tom Cruise probably isn't a horrible father. Sure, he uses their soccer games as photo ops but 3/4 of Hollywood celebs seem to photowhore their kids. Sure, he's a couch jumping closet case but that does not automatically make someone a horrible parent. If courts were to sever parental custody based on big egos, wacky behavior, or bizarre spiritual beliefs an awful lot of people would lose their kids overnight. Look, I think CTC and the Clamology are really nutsy kookoo but Scientology is not illegal. Raising your kids as Scienos is not illegal. What would Nicole's case be in court to gain more or all custody? Nothing, that's what. Her kids are at an age where they might fight to spend more time in LA with their dad (given that they're probably treated like Clam royalty, I suspect this is the case). If Nicole tries to force them to stay with her, she might just wind up alienating them completely.

Regarding her wanting to birth a child, I haven't seen a constant barrage of such comments. If she mentioned it in, say, three interviews held over a few days and those interviews get repeated and paraphrased in countless publications it might seem that she's going on and on and on about it when she really isn't. Also, I don't see what's wrong with a woman reaching the end of her fertility, newly remarried, who's interested in having a biological child. It is not a slam against her other kids. She has never said anything like "those other two don't count, now I want a real one."

In the CTC and Katebot threads, we've had a jolly good time (rightly) slamming those weirdos for whoring out Suri to sell their oh-so-close family image. Now we slam Nicole for not doing the same. Personally, I think it's great that whatever amount of time she's spent with her children during their entire lives, Nicole has taken care to keep it away from the press.

[Witchie]

gee said:

Some mothers do and some mothers don't. That still doesn't compute to her not loving them and no one said they were in danger, at least not physically. Perhaps mentally and definitely spiritually in danger, but I contend that she does what she can. Money doesn't always equate to power. Besides that, they're now adolescents who are at an age when they can make certain decisions for themselves. Given that they've been raised in the cult their entire lives, it could be that they've chosen to spend little time with her, since it goes against the cult's teachings for them to be with her.

Also, I have yet to post that he is a "totally evil and mean-spirited and a horrible father;" I posted that he is that in general as a person; that doesn't mean he's like that with them. OTOH, overindulging and allowing them to be brainwashed by a cult, IMO, is bad parenting, but to him and to Kidman that may not be the case.

I rarely comment in this thread precisely because it often ends up with her being called a bad mother who doesn't care enough to do anything about the control Clambo and the cult have over their children.

Having been in a situation where I was taken from my mother at a young age and my mom had to fight to get my brother and me back, even though we had no contact with her and didn't know she was fighting for us until we were older, I have strong feelings about people saying she doesn't care enough about them to fight for them. From personal experience, I know that this isn't necessarily the case. Just because we're not privy to her efforts doesn't mean she's not making any.

In my case, to this day, my mom has regrets about what happened with us and she says—and I believe—it is because the people who kept us from her broke our bond with her because we were so long when we were forced to choose beween her and others. I later found that all the things that my mom and our relatives on her side of the family had sent us for birthdays, holidays, whenever, were hidden from us, including cards. I know this because I found them in the attic of the paternal relatives we lived with shortly before we were reunited with our mom. Gifts and such we never saw and were never found.

Obviously, YMMV, as to whether she tries hard enough or cares enough to try. I choose to believe that she does.

ITA. I'm not going to condemn her because those kids are in a cult, and that cult is dangerous to outsiders, even to people of her stature.

[Deleted]

I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. No one does. My opinions are based solely on her recent comments -- her actual words. And I find them very sad and a disturbing reflection on her relationship with her children.

What kind of mother is she actually? I have no idea. But I'm worried for those kids. Their parents are little scary.

Lately her actions have been very uncharacteristic. She's not a stupid woman, so I can only guess that she's purposing baiting(?) people to read between the lines. I think she knows exactly how provocative her comments will be. Why make them? Passive aggressiveness? Self-promotion? Desperation? I find that more interesting than debating whether she's a good mother or not.

[kostgard]

Also, we have to take into account that Tom Cruise probably isn't a horrible father. Sure, he uses their soccer games as photo ops but 3/4 of Hollywood celebs seem to photowhore their kids. Sure, he's a couch jumping closet case but that does not automatically make someone a horrible parent. If courts were to sever parental custody based on big egos, wacky behavior, or bizarre spiritual beliefs an awful lot of people would lose their kids overnight. Look, I think CTC and the Clamology are really nutsy kookoo but Scientology is not illegal. Raising your kids as Scienos is not illegal. What would Nicole's case be in court to gain more or all custody? Nothing, that's what. Her kids are at an age where they might fight to spend more time in LA with their dad (given that they're probably treated like Clam royalty, I suspect this is the case). If Nicole tries to force them to stay with her, she might just wind up alienating them completely.

I complete agree. I'm sure Tom loves his kids and he believes that he's doing the right thing for them by involving them in Scientology. And it is true that a lot of Scientology's beliefs and practices (at least the ones the Cruise kids are likely going to be involved with) aren't dangerous, so it isn't like the kids are handling serpents or something else that puts them in immediate danger. If they develop mental/psychological problems down the line and aren't allowed to see a shrink, then they might be in trouble. But right now they are probably just fine and Nicole really doesn't have anything to object to other than she doesn't like the religion.

Plus, the kids are teenagers now (or close to it). I'm sure they are at a point where they would rather stay in one place where their friends are than be shipped back and forth between their parents. They've been in LA a lot more than they have Australia or Nashville or anywhere else Nicole may have a home, so it makes sense that they would rather stay there.

I haven't seen enough about Nicole and the kids to make a call on it. I do suspect that she sees them more than we think, but there is some strangeness there - yet then again, Tom Cruise and Scientology are involved, so of course it is going to be weird.

[angelaudie]

Plus, the kids are teenagers now (or close to it). I'm sure they are at a point where they would rather stay in one place where their friends are than be shipped back and forth between their parents. They've been in LA a lot more than they have Australia or Nashville or anywhere else Nicole may have a home, so it makes sense that they would rather stay there.

I think that's exactly why the kids live with Tom. L.A. is the place where they grew up (for the most part) and it's where their friends live. The Cruise children are teenagers and friends mean more than anything to teens (yes that includes family). I also imagine Tom spoils them which probably helps lean toward Tom as well. I also agree that she probably sees them more than we know. She doesn't alert the media like TomKat does so we have no idea about it.

I was watching the Daily 10 tonight on E! (don't judge me) and they had a little Nicole mention. They quoted her stating that she's looking to move back to L.A. so she can be closer to the kids.

[Deleted]

I thought this quote in the Marie Claire interview meant that it was the kids who decided to stay and live in L.A. Am I reading it wrong?

"When children are teenagers, they have a say in where they want to be," Kidman says. "L.A. is a big draw, and I'm looking to get a place there so we can share more."