Celebrities & Scientology

[Deleted]

Considering how Sea Org are reputed to treat the kids that are born, I'm amazed Social Services haven't swept in there and done something.

Yeah, that's a good point. I wonder why nothing has been done. Could the clams be threatening the Social Services Depts near their centers? Or maybe it's b/c someone has to actually report a specific case of abuse, and since everyone around the kids are clams and believe in their bullshit, then there's no one to report anything? I don't get it at all. I wish there was a center near me so I could call my local DSS and ask then WTF was going on.

[Deleted]

peabrain said:

I have become obsessed lately with reading all that I can about this crazy clam cult. Not to sound "glib" but I simply just don't get it. What exactly is their agenda? I mean OK so they believe some crazy alien Xenu blew up the universe billions of years ago and little pieces of evil alien soul now inhabit each anf every one of our bodies and thru the auditing process we are ridding ourself of these evil little beings? Hmmm OK then. I mean My God I have done some serious reading up on this and that is the best I can come up with. What are their beliefs on moral issues that most religions take a stand on. Drinking? Smoking? Premarital Sex? Abortion? Politics? What's with the Sea Org? What is it's purpose? Is it some sort of puesdo Navy? Aside from their hatred of psychiatry and psych meds I have no idea what their beliefs are on anything. Aside from auditing what goes on at the Scientology Centers? Do they have Sunday services? What do they talk about at them? Aliens?
The more I read up on it the less I know. Other than it is most definetly a cult.
It's so truly mystifying to me. Can you imagine if a bunch of celebrities had joined the Branch Davidians and went around singing it's praises? I mean what's the difference really?
You're all smart folks. I know someone will be able to shed a little light for me.

If you want to know the story, I reccomend A Piece of Blue Sky: Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard Exposed by Jon Atack. It IS available to read online here.

You can also read some other works on the crap that is Scientology.

[spider]

They're offshore. The stae welfare office has no jurisdcition out there.

[mardigras]

Okay, this is going to be a long post, but it's the on-line COS Stress Test, so bear with me... (And remember, I had to answer all the questions to bring it here, because each page only had 40, and I couldn't progress to the next page without answering the questions on the previous page. I can honestly say that I learned absolutely nothing about myself.)

1. Do you make thoughtless remarks or accusations which later you regret? + ? -

2. When others are getting rattled, do you remain fairly composed? + ? -

3. Do you browse through railway timetables, directories, or dictionaries just for pleasure? + ? -

4. When asked to make a decision, would you be swayed by your like or dislike of the personality involved? + ? -

5. Do you intend two or less children in your family even though your health and income will permit more? + ? -

6. Do you get occasional twitches of your muscles, when there is no logical reason for it? + ? -

7. Would you prefer to be in a position where you did not have the responsibilities of making decisions? + ? -

8. Are your actions considered unpredictable by other people? + ? -

9. Do you consider more money should be spent on social security? + ? -

10. Do other people interest you very much? + ? -

11. Is your voice monotonous, rather than varied in pitch? + ? -

12. Do you normally let the other person start the conversation? + ? -

13. Are you readily interested in other people's conversations? + ? -

14. Would the idea of inflicting pain on game, small animals or fish prevent you from hunting or fishing? + ? -

15. Are you often impulsive in your behavior? + ? -

16. Do you speak slowly? + ? -

17. Are you usually concerned about the need to protect your health? + ? -

18. Does an unexpected action cause your muscles to twitch? + ? -

19. Are you normally considerate in your demands on your employees, relatives, or pupils? + ? -

20. Do you consider that you could give a valid “snap judgment”? + ? -

21. Do your past failures still worry you? + ? -

22. Do you find yourself being extra-active for periods lasting several days? + ? -

23. Do you resent the efforts of others to tell you what to do? + ? -

24. Is it normally hard for you to “own up and take the blame”? + ? -

25. Do you have a small circle of close friends, rather than a large number of friends, speaking acquaintances? + ? -

26. Is your life a constant struggle for survival? + ? -

27. Do you often sing or whistle just for the fun of it? + ? -

28. Are you considered warm-hearted by your friends? + ? -

29. Would you rather give orders than take them? + ? -

30. Do you enjoy telling people the latest scandal about your associates? + ? -

31. Could you agree to “strict discipline”? + ? -

32. Would the idea of making a complete new start cause you much concern? + ? -

33. Do you make efforts to get others to laugh and smile? + ? -

34. Do you find it easy to express your emotions? + ? -

35. Do you refrain from complaining when the other person is late for an appointment? + ? -

36. Are you sometimes considered by others a “spoilsport”? + ? -

37. Do you consider there are other people who are definitely unfriendly toward you and work against you? + ? -

38. Would you admit you were wrong just to “keep the peace”? + ? -

39. Do you have only a few people of whom you are really fond? + ? -

40. Are you rarely happy, unless you have a special reason?

41. Do you “circulate around” at a social gathering? + ? -

42. Do you take reasonable precaution to prevent accidents? + ? -

43. Does the idea of talking in front of people make you nervous? + ? -

44. If you saw an article in a shop obviously mistakenly marked lower than its correct price, would you try to get it at that price? + ? -

45. Do you often feel that people are looking at you or talking about you behind your back? + ? -

46. Are you “always getting into trouble”? + ? -

47. Have you any particular hate or fear? + ? -

48. Do you prefer to be an onlooker rather than participate in any active sport? + ? -

49. Do you find it easy to be impartial? + ? -

50. Have you a definitely set standard of courteous behavior in front of other members of your family? + ? -

51. Can you “start the ball rolling” at a social gathering? + ? -

52. Would you “buy on credit” with the hope that you can keep up the payments? + ? -

53. Do you get an after-reaction when something unexpected such as an accident or other disturbing incident takes place? + ? -

54. Do you consider the good of all concerned rather than your own personal advantages? + ? -

55. When hearing a lecturer, do you sometimes experience the idea that the speaker is referring entirely to you? + ? -

56. Does “external noise” rarely interfere with your concentration? + ? -

57. Are you usually “up-to-date” on everyday affairs? + ? -

58. Can you confidently plan and work towards carrying out an event in six months time? + ? -

59. Do you consider the modern “prisons without bars” system doomed to failure? + ? -

60. Do you tend to be careless? + ? -

61. Do you ever get a “dreamlike” feeling toward life when it all seems unreal? + ? -

62. Do you speedily recover from the effects of bad news? + ? -

63. When you criticize - do you at the same time try to encourage? + ? -

64. Are you normally considered “cold”? + ? -

65. Are your opinions insufficiently important to tell other people? + ? -

66. Are you so self-assured that it sometimes annoys others? + ? -

67. Do you keep “close contact” on articles of yours which you have loaned to friends? + ? -

68. Do you enjoy activities of your own choosing? + ? -

69. Does emotional music have quite an effect on you? + ? -

70. Do you completely condemn a person because he is a rival or opponent in some aspect of your relations with him? + ? -

71. Do you often “sit and think” about death, sickness, pain and sorrow? + ? -

72. Are you perturbed at the idea of loss of dignity? + ? -

73. Are you always collecting things which “might be useful”? + ? -

74. Would you criticize faults and point out the bad points on someone else's character or handiwork? + ? -

75. Are you openly appreciative of beautiful things? + ? -

76. Do you sometimes give away articles which strictly speaking do not belong to you? + ? -

77. Do you greet people effusively? + ? -

78. Do you often ponder on previous misfortunes? + ? -

79. Are you sometimes considered forceful in your actions or opinions? + ? -

80. Do you accept criticism easily and without resentment?

Are you usually undisturbed by “noises off” when you are trying to rest? + ? -

82. Are you likely to be jealous? + ? -

83. Do you tend to put off doing things and then discover it is too late? + ? -

84. Do you prefer to abide by the wishes of others rather than seek to have your own way? + ? -

85. Do you find it easy to get yourself started on a project? + ? -

86. Do you bite your fingernails or chew the end of your pencil? + ? -

87. Do you “turn up the volume” of your emotions just to create an effect? + ? -

88. If we were invading another country, would you feel sympathetic towards conscientious objectors in this country? + ? -

89. Are there some things about yourself on which you are touchy? + ? -

90. Do you have few interests and activities that are your own choice? + ? -

91. Do you ever get a single thought which hangs around for days? + ? -

92. Are you a slow eater? + ? -

93. Can you be a stabilizing influence when others get panicky? + ? -

94. Would you stop and find out whether a person needed help even though they had not directly asked you for it? + ? -

95. Are you prejudiced in favor of your own school, college, club or team, etc.? + ? -

96. Do you pay your debts and keep your promises when it is possible? + ? -

97. Do you sleep well? + ? -

98. Would you use corporal punishment on a child aged ten if it refused to obey you? + ? -

99. Do you prefer to take a passive role in any club or organization to which you belong? + ? -

100. Are you logical and scientific in your thinking? + ? -

101. Does the youth of today have more opportunity than that of a generation ago? + ? -

102. Do you throw things away only to discover that you need them later? + ? -

103. Would you give up easily on a given course if it were causing you a considerable amount of inconvenience? + ? -

104. Do you “wax enthusiastic” about only a few subjects? + ? -

105. Do you rarely suspect the actions of others? + ? -

106. Do you sometimes wonder if anyone really cares about you? + ? -

107. Do you turn down responsibility because you doubt your fitness to cope? + ? -

108. Do you sometimes feel compelled to repeat some interesting item or tidbit? + ? -

109. Do you tend to exaggerate a justifiable grievance? + ? -

110. Is your facial expression varied rather than set? + ? -

111. Do you usually need to justify or back up an opinion once stated? + ? -

112. Do you openly and sincerely admire beauty in other people? + ? -

113. Would it take a definite effort on your part to consider the subject of suicide? + ? -

114. Would you consider yourself energetic in your attitude toward life? + ? -

115. Would a disagreement affect your general relationship with another person? + ? -

116. Does a minor failure on your part rarely trouble you? + ? -

117. Do you sometimes feel that you talk too much? + ? -

118. Do you smile much? + ? -

119. Are you easily pleased? + ? -

120. When met with direct opposition would you still seek to have your own way rather than give in?

121. Provided the distance were not too great, would you still prefer to ride rather than walk? + ? -

122. Do you ever get disturbed by the noise of the wind or a “house settling down”? + ? -

123. Is your opinion influenced by looking at things from the standpoint of your experiences, occupation or training? + ? -

124. Do you often make tactless blunders? + ? -

125. Are you suspicious of people who ask to borrow money from you? + ? -

126. Are your decisions swayed by personal interests? + ? -

127. Can you get quite enthusiastic over “some simple little thing”? + ? -

128. Do you frequently take action even though you know your own good judgment would indicate otherwise? + ? -

129. Are you in favor of color bar and class distinction? + ? -

130. Are you aware of any habitual physical mannerisms such as pulling your hair, nose, ears, or such like? + ? -

131. Can you quickly adapt and make use of new conditions and situations even though they may be difficult? + ? -

132. Do some noises “set your teeth on edge”? + ? -

133. Can you see the other fellow's point of view when you wish to? + ? -

134. Do you go to bed when you want to, rather than “by the clock”? + ? -

135. Do the “petty foibles” of others make you impatient? + ? -

136. Do children irritate you? + ? -

137. Are you less talkative than your associates? + ? -

138. Do you usually carry out assignments promptly and systematically? + ? -

139. Would you assist a fellow traveler rather than leave it to the officials? + ? -

140. When voting, do you vote the same party ticket straight rather than studying the candidates and issues? + ? -

141. Do you frequently dwell on your past illnesses or painful experiences? + ? -

142. Do you get very ill at ease in disordered surroundings? + ? -

143. Do you usually criticize a film or show that you see or a book that you read? + ? -

144. When recounting some amusing incident can you easily imitate the mannerisms or the dialect in the original incident? + ? -

145. In subjects about which you are not expert, are your own ideas of sufficient importance as to tell others? + ? -

146. Do you have a tendency to tidy up a disorder of somebody else's household? + ? -

147. Can you accept defeat easily without the necessity of “swallowing your disappointment”? + ? -

148. Do you often feel depressed? + ? -

149. Are you ever ill at ease in the company of children? + ? -

150. Do you get frustrated at not being able to do something rather than finding a substitute activity or system? + ? -

151. Are you sometimes completely unable to enter the spirit of things? + ? -

152. Do you rarely express your grievances? + ? -

153. Do you work in “spurts,” being relatively inactive and then furiously active for a day or two? + ? -

154. Does the number of uncompleted jobs you have on hand bother you? + ? -

155. Do people enjoy being in your company? + ? -

156. Could you allow someone to finish those “final two words” in a crossword puzzle without interfering? + ? -

157. Do you consider the best points of most people and only rarely speak slightingly of them? + ? -

158. Do you laugh or smile quite readily? + ? -

159. Are you definite and emphatic in voice and manner? + ? -

160. Are you effusive only to close friends if at all?

161. Are your interests and fields of knowledge so important as to give little time for anything else? + ? -

162. Would you like to “start a new activity” in the area in which you live? + ? -

163. Would you make the necessary actions to kill an animal in order to put it out of pain? + ? -

164. Is it easy for you to relax? + ? -

165. Do you have little regret on past misfortunes and failures? + ? -

166. Does the idea of fear or apprehension give you a physical reaction? + ? -

167. Can you trust the decision of your judgment in an emotional situation in which you are involved? + ? -

168. Could someone else consider that you were really active? + ? -

169. Do you find it hard to get started on a task that needs to be done? + ? -

170. Are you opposed to the “probation system” for criminals? + ? -

171. Do you spend much time on needless worries? + ? -

172. In a disagreement do you find it hard to understand how the other person fails to see your side, and thus agree with you? + ? -

173. Do you cope with everyday problems of living quite well? + ? -

174. Are you usually truthful to others? + ? -

175. Would you rather “wait for something to happen” as opposed to you causing it? + ? -

176. Do you spend too freely in relation to your income? + ? -

177. Can you take a “calculated risk” without too much worry? + ? -

178. If you were involved in a slight car accident, would you really take the trouble to see that any damage you did was made good? + ? -

179. Do others push you around? + ? -

180. Do you make allowances for your friends where with others you might judge more severely? + ? -

181. Do you often ponder over your own inferiority? + ? -

182. Do people criticize you to others? + ? -

183. Are you embarrassed by a hearty greeting such as a kiss, hug, or pat on the back, if done in public? + ? -

184. Do you frequently not do something you want to do because of other people's desires? + ? -

185. Are you sometimes convinced of the correctness of your opinions about a subject even though you are not an expert? + ? -

186. Do you often find yourself “going off in all directions at once”? + ? -

187. Do your acquaintances seem to think more of your abilities than you do? + ? -

188. Is the idea of death or even reminders of death abhorrent to you? + ? -

189. Having settled an argument out do you continue to feel disgruntled for a while? + ? -

190. Are you friendly in voice, attitude, and expression? + ? -

191. Does life seem rather vague and unreal to you? + ? -

192. Do you often feel upset about the fate of war victims and political refugees? + ? -

193. Do “mere acquaintances” appeal to you for aid or advice in their personal difficulties? + ? -

194. If you lose an article, do you get the idea that “someone must have stolen or mislaid it”? + ? -

195. If you thought that someone was suspicious of you and your actions, would you tackle them on the subject rather than leaving them to work it out? + ? -

196. Do you sometimes feel that your age is against you (too young or too old)? + ? -

197. Do you have spells of being sad and depressed for no apparent reason? + ? -

198. Do you do much grumbling about conditions you have to face in life? + ? -

199. Do you tend to hide your feelings? + ? -

200. Do you consider you have many warm friends?

#129, racist much, L. Ron?

. Are you in favor of color bar and class distinction?

And the rest, they're practically begging for people with psychiatric problems with each question. It's sad.

[heyjude]

But what do the RESULTS of the test show? which answers make you a "good" Scientologist?

Here's the thing that strikes me - Co$ was founded on the delusional rantings of an insane man. Really. L Ron Hubbard was diagnosed and treated for paranoid schizophrenia. His 'religion" is more about being against psychiatry than anything else. He thought the doctors and nurses were trying to control him with drugs.

I've worked in state psychiatric hospitals, I've talked to paranoid schizophrenics. Many of them are quite intelligent. I'd say all of them have delusions about the doctors. Mind control, mind reading, stealing thoughts. poisoning, etc - it's all part of the illness.

Tinfoil hats? To keep the aliens from taking your thoughts and inserting theirs? that is paranoid schizophrenia. There are real people who wear tinfoil or other metals on their heads to protect their brains. I have always found it fascinating how similar the delusions can be from one schizophrenic to the next.

Scientology? It's a religion based on mental illness.

[mardigras]

I answered all the questions exactly as I felt, and I got a result that indicated that I was in a "very desirable state" in all my answers except those that involved critical thinking, in which I was in the "unacceptable state."

The graph I printed out looked like this ------v----. With the v being the critical thinking. I love that L. Ron decided I was lacking in the critical thinking department because I didn't buy into his shit.

Honestly, if you look at the test closely, it piratically invites people with relatively common minor mental illnesses to join.

Edited to add: The fields that they rate you on are: Stable? Happy? Composed? Certainty? Active? Aggressive? Responsible? Critical? Appreciative? Communicative?

[spider]

Just the length of that test is stressing me out.

[Deleted]

spider said:

Just the length of that test is stressing me out.

You and me both.

[kostgard]

This is an article from Spy magazine from about 10 years ago. The writer "joined" Scientology for about 10 days as an experiment. Very interesting read and echoes a lot of stuff people have said here about their experiences and the craziness that CTC has been spouting.

After reading the stories here and that article, it is amazing how just about everyone who takes their "personality test" is on the verge of suicide and must join the clams immediately so they can help them.

I've actually been thinking about whether or not I'm being fair to the clams. I mean, it could be argued that any religion is cult, and while I scoff at the thetans stuff, all religions have stories that are hard to swallow (Seriously, there was this guy who could walk on water and change water into wine - then he came back from the dead!).

But someone over at TWoP summed it up nicely in the "Today Show" thread (in the wake of CTC's interview with Matt Lauer). The poster pointed out that setting aside all the wacky practices of Scientology and the way they don't like to let their members go and tell them to cut off the "suppressives" in their lives, look at it this way: With all the major religions in the world (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.), even the poorest person could reach that religion's highest state (nirvana, etc) if he works hard and studies that religion's teachings. In order to reach the highest state in Scientology and become "clear" you have to shell out thousands upon thousands of dollars.

This is why Scientology isn't a religion. It is a SCAM. Its teachings are ridiculous and can be down-right dangerous. And the people who join them are idiots.

[Malle Babbe]

Back on the board that existed "In the Beforetime? The Long Long Ago?" there were rumors that Crispin Glover, Jim Carrey, and/or other slebs would go to these Co$ centers and prank on the folks running those tests. Hee.