Celebrities & Scientology

[monsterzero]

I have to agree yet again with Monster Zero. There's a valid argument that can be made that all religion is wacky, and we should do away with ALL of them; however there is very little we can do about those religions that have been around for a very long time. But we CAN denounce the cults that are popping up and thriving RIGHT NOW, if only to save our children and our children's children from assuming that these religions have validity based on longevity. I don't want any of my descendants becoming clams, and the only way I can prevent that is calling BullShit when I see it..

Actually, you should question any religion because they're all fucking nuts. In fact, the whole idea of religion is in itself stupid because we're just pissing in the wind about what happens to us after we die. The simple matter of this is that the only way to deal with the unknown is when you're there. To me, most religions are just excuses to control people and to justify doing horrible stuff to other people, period, no matter how long it's been around for. Religion is emotional blackmail combined with false authority to guilt you into thinking an action controls the fact if you live or die and as far as this world has shown us, we die. What really happens? No idea. But I can pretty much say that since all religious material is written by living people (vessels or NOT), you can't trust a living person about what happens after death, hence all religion is complete and utter bullshit.

Yeah, my 9th grade bio teacher told us he was a fellow who, after having a successful career in marketing, "got a call" from Jesus Christ to become a bio teacher so he could deny students any education on evolution. But he was still a cool guy. Except for the time he made us write down in our notes to abstain from homosexual activity to keep from getting AIDS.

Well, fuck teaching in the USA then. Why bother getting a higher education when you're just going to spout nonsense to kids in order to push a political agenda? Might as well just slap their asses in front of a TV for eight hours a day on Faux News and be done with it.

Well, see, I don't have a problem with joining stupid cults as long as you're an adult doing it of your own free will. You're only hurting yourself. But you shouldn't be allowed to force your cult's beliefs on others, nor should you be allowed to corrupt young children.

I don't think you should put yourself through that shit either. Why the hell do we need to believe anything? What's the big deal about just living life and coming to the unknown when it comes? In a way religion is a shell game with the almighty and thinking that the almighty is stupid enough to forgive anything if you just pledge to be on his side. Huh? That's capitalistic office politics speaking. And if people want to believe the whole of human existence is nothing more than playing pissy games to get into some exclusive club, then I'd rather turn to reincarnation.

Science classes in the US are a joke, thanks to the fundies. Hell, a lot of school's a joke. Don't even get me started on history...(And I'm a history major!)

Well said. In fact, I think Clamism is a gigantic joke on all of us. Just because you have a belief doesn't mean it's valid no matter how much history is behind it. All belief is supposed to do is reconcile individual faith and isn't meant to be a cure-all for everybody. I think the thing we need to examine here is why exactly Americans (and everybody else, I guess) needs to belong to a faith. Is it because we don't want to die, or because our lives are so unfulfilling that instead of changing it and going around frustated we dream of an utopian existence as escapism? Yeah, I know I'm going into a Marxist realm here by criticizing capitalism, but let's face it: we're all trying to make sense out of the real world through religion and belief and the reason is that there's something wrong with the real world that we can't put our finger on. And I think the problem is that we're lying to ourselves about terms of fairness and rights in the world today and we know it's wrong but we can't break the belief that it's not true because if it was we would have to act.

Man, I'm getting deep, think I'll stop before Tofu beats me.

[roxpopuli]

Well said. In fact, I think Clamism is a gigantic joke on all of us. Just because you have a belief doesn't mean it's valid no matter how much history is behind it.

On topic (Monster Zero, you big lovable atheist you!), Scientology's history is rife with exploitation, extremism, bullying and illegality. So in this case I would think that history is actually against them. How do clams reconcile this history with their beliefs? Pretend it doesn't exist? Employ doublethink? Go the revisionist route and deny it all?

[NappingAthena]

I was out of town for a few days, and when I was on vacation we went to a mall in the city I was at (no I'm not saying which city, but think baseball, red, and the midwest). There was a Dianetics booth with an E Meter, so i just had to try it. So, after trying it the guy was like "Are you interested in learning more" and I told him "No, I can't be involved in your organization because I'm on an anti depressant" He was like "Have you read the book Dianetics? Because I'm pretty sure it doesn't say anything about you not being able to do it if you are on medication like that"
I just politely walked away without saying "I do watch TV and read magazines. I have seen every frigging thing the Church of Scientology has been saying about the type of medicaiton I am on."

[monsterzero]

roxpopuli said:

Well said. In fact, I think Clamism is a gigantic joke on all of us. Just because you have a belief doesn't mean it's valid no matter how much history is behind it.

On topic (Monster Zero, you big lovable atheist you!), Scientology's history is rife with exploitation, extremism, bullying and illegality. So in this case I would think that history is actually against them. How do clams reconcile this history with their beliefs? Pretend it doesn't exist? Employ doublethink? Go the revisionist route and deny it all?

Clamism's biggest flaw is that it doesn't allow questioning at all. While you can get away with some questioning in any religion before you're shunned (or have to start your own denomination), the whole reason Clamlogy is secret is because 1) it's completely silly and 2) it's used to get more money. Their reluctance to show what their 'religion' is really about shows their own disbelief in it and reveal it to be a scam. Seriously, if you're so proud of your beliefs, why not spread them? Ask a Clam that and you'll see a blank look and some elitist claim to cover that.

Which means even the highers up know it's bullshit unless you're famous and spreading the word of insecurity.

[roxpopuli]

Seriously, if you're so proud of your beliefs, why not spread them? Ask a Clam that and you'll see a blank look and some elitist claim to cover that.

WORD. Even the Great Clambo never discusses Scientology per se except in the vaguest of terms. He'll rage against things that Co$ doesn't believe in, but won't say anything about the cult scam ignorant waste of time religion unless it is to say something completely benign, like, "It really helps people."

I wish people would start questioning him on concrete aspects of the church's history. "Tom, isn't it true that several people have died while under the medical care of Scientology workers?" "Mr. Cruise, what do you have to say about the fact that there is written evidence that L. Ron deliberately created a religion to bilk people out of their money?"

CTC: "Blahblahblahclamcakes."

On another Co$ topic--how did they get back their tax-exempt status if they charge for membership?

[bitsygirl]

WORD. Even the Great Clambo never discusses Scientology per se except in the vaguest of terms. He'll rage against things that Co$ doesn't believe in, but won't say anything about the cult scam ignorant waste of time religion unless it is to say something completely benign, like, "It really helps people."

So true. In his Access Hollywood interview BB asked him what auditing was, which seems like a pretty innocent question and he completely ignored the question and pretended he hadn't heard him.

[monsterzero]

Probably because if he said it was a way to gather blackmail material in case you decide to leave the cult, people might start comparing it to Guyana or Waco.

[rorgg]

Go the revisionist route and deny it all?

Yep. Anything saying anything bad about the Co$ is:

1. Ignorant (You don't know! But *I* know!); or
2. Lying to promote an evil agenda.

Or a combination of the two.

[monsterzero]

But on the bright side, his criticisms have emboldened critics of Clamlogy to come out and tell everybody exactly what they're 'ignorant' of and really cut the Clams off at the knees as a retort. They can't sue everybody without looking like they're hiding something and they can't result to threats because that'll expose them. Or tell everybody what they're all about because...well, nuff said.

Nice trap they set for themselves here.

[Oxynia]

Yep. Anything saying anything bad about the Co$ is:

1. Ignorant (You don't know! But *I* know!); or
2. Lying to promote an evil agenda.

Or a combination of the two.

Or "religious persecution" which cracks me up to no end. It's their way of avoiding having to answer the charges. Really humourless bunch.