Australia in Pop Culture

[Yossarian]

Ian Thorpe's LA training regime is getting stranger and stranger:

IAN Thorpe's Hollywood sojourn is getting stranger by the day. The Herald can reveal the world's best swimmer has been under the guidance of the enigmatic fiance of Shane Gould, American coach Milt Nelms, since July.

Nelms is known as the "horse whisperer" of swimming and has unique ideas about stroke, pool posture and the use of rhythm and energy. The revelation exposes claims by the Thorpe camp that he had been trained by respected US coach Dave Salo since he landed in Los Angeles three months ago as rubbish.

Salo, appointed head coach at University of Southern California this summer, said Thorpe's entire period of training ran three weeks, contradicting reports throughout the period from the Thorpe camp and the News Ltd media and a Foxtel television interview Thorpe gave in August.

Members of the USC swimming squad, meanwhile, say Thorpe never showed for a single session. The Thorpe camp appears to be engaged in spinning a steady stream of misinformation about his stay in Los Angeles, his swimming itinerary and future in the sport.

[Yossarian]

Wow, I'm bumping this thread to post something positive about Angelina Jolie!

Go with your husband-stealing self*, Angie!

Hollywood beauty Angelina Jolie has criticised Australia for its record on refugees.

The actor, a goodwill ambassador for the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), the United Nations' refugee agency, accuses Australia, Europe and the United States of ignoring the plight of those fleeing repressive regimes.

Writing in the latest issue of the UNHCR magazine, Refugee, she says the status of refugees - people escaping persecution or war - is being jeopardised by arguments about economic migrants.

"There have been more than 7000 catalogued deaths of people trying to get into Europe over the past decade or so, and that is probably far short of the real total," she writes.

"Many have also died trying to get to the US and Australia. But we don't notice.

"We are simply affronted by their audacity. How dare they try to eat at our table?"

Jolie, 31, became involved with the UNHCR after filming Tomb Raider in poverty-stricken Cambodia.

*Joke! Kind of.

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I agree. I'm appalled by Australia's attitude towards refugees. We've never had a war fought on Australian soil - although many people here have been affected by war - so we don't have any concept of what they're going through.

[/non pop-culture related rant]

[Deleted]

Australian's are pretty sheltered when it comes to the issue of wars, human rights violations, and refugees. As Evil Minion said, we've never had a war on our soil, and our crime rate is pretty low. So, when we see images of labor violations in the Phillipines or genocide in East Africa, so many people don't know how to react. While America's human rights record isn't perfect, I actually think it's better than ours; at least they permit (in action, though not technically in law) a lot of immigrants from Mexico, Central, and South America.

And, on a slightly lighter note...Thorpey really needs to give it up. I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think his heart is in it. He's burned out, and it's pretty obvious.

[catfrog]

You know, I always thought most Australians must agree with their governments policy on refugees and race issues, so it's interesting to hear someone Australian disagree with it. Do you think the majority of Aussies back Howard on those kinds of issues?

[Yossarian]

catfrog said:

You know, I always thought most Australians must agree with their governments policy on refugees and race issues, so it's interesting to hear someone Australian disagree with it. Do you think the majority of Aussies back Howard on those kinds of issues?

Good question - and one that's hard to answer clearly. If you go by who is in government then you'd have to say yes, that most people support the Pacific solution. But, of course, perhaps people voted in the last federal election more on interest rates and against Labor than for the Libs? Among my circle of friends there is next to no support for the way we treat *illegal refugees* - a misnomer if there ever was one - but I don't think my friends are all that representative of the majority.

One thing I have noticed though is that five years ago there seemed to be an anecdotally broad level of support for detention centres and excising parts of Australia so that they are outside of the migration zone. But today, with various refugees in detention centres for upwards of seven years, I think a lot more people are questioning the way refugees are treated - even as they still might support a Howard-esque stance. That is, while people may support the govt's right to dictate "who comes to Australia and in what circumstance" they may not feel that indefinite incarceration in a detention centre is fair or moral.

I also think that the detention of the two Australian women as illegal refugees also helped to sway people to view the Dept. of Immigration with more suspicion. On the other hand, the equation of refugee = Muslim (you know, they throw their children into the sea to drown ) perhaps lessens the public sympathy for their plight than, say, if it were a bunch of Swedish models wanting to come to Australia.

So, basically, I don't know! Probably, yes, most people do support the government treatment of illegal refugees.

[Deleted]

ximena said:

. . . While America's human rights record isn't perfect, I actually think it's better than ours; at least they permit (in action, though not technically in law) a lot of immigrants from Mexico, Central, and South America . . .

I don't know whether America's record is better than ours, but I'll tell you what: I'd rather be black and be living in Australia than be black and in the US. We're getting worse, but I've found (peripherally, of course, being white myself) that minorities and immigrants have better social acceptance here than in the US.

Granted, my views of the US are based on nine years in northern NJ, so I don't know whether it's better in, say, Seattle or San Francisco. But I think we have slightly less of a tradition/expectation of racism in Australia.

Strictly comparing our treatment of Aboriginals versus the US treatment of Native Americans, however, we'd come out worse, no question. But in our defense, there seems more desire to act to help Aboriginals, whereas the only time I heard about Native Ams. in the US was when someone (well everyone, actually) was claiming 1/8th heritage on their college application.

Somewhat O/T: The big difference between Australia and the US (at least politically) is that Australians change their minds easily when it comes to political parties. Americans, on the other hand, tend to be have very ingrained political views and are unlikely to shift heir vote (if they bother to vote at all, that is). We also lack the everlasting enthusiam that Americans have. We have a sometimes unfortunate tendency to shrug our shoulders, whereas Americans love to get involved in anything and everything.

catfrog said:

You know, I always thought most Australians must agree with their governments policy on refugees and race issues, so it's interesting to hear someone Australian disagree with it. Do you think the majority of Aussies back Howard on those kinds of issues?

Tough one. Yossarian probably has a more accurate view than I do, but I will say in our defense that I don't think there's a true underlying racism in Australia. As a general rule, I think most who vote Liberal aren't really all that fussed about whether boat people come into our country or not -- it's fairly well known that refugees account for a miniscule percent of the population. My feeling is that the general view is that as long as our interest rates stay low and John Howard doesn't become too unlikeable, we're prepared to let most other things go without too much fuss.

Catfrog -- what's the perception of Australians (and 'our' views on refugees) in NZ? My grandfather says that all kiwis think Aussies are awful, but he doesn't think much of our little island, so it's hard to tell what the truth is!

[catfrog]

Thanks Yossarian and Beatle2102. It's good to hear that people aren't as accepting of detention centres as they once were. The 'Pacific solution' is just awful.

what's the perception of Australians (and 'our' views on refugees) in NZ?

Now there's a question! I think there's a mixture of dislike and jealousy.
NZ'ers love to put down Australian's, and people here definitely feel superior to Aussie's when it comes to things like race. Because we have such a prominent Maori population, it kind of appalls many people the way Aborigines are treated. Having said that, I think there are a lot of more conservative Kiwis who secretly admire your refugee policy, and the fact that you don't seem to have a lot of land issues etc, with Aborigines. It's just with our political climate, and vocal Maori population, they don't feel they can express it. With the way Aussies seem to do so well in everything, and have such a good quality of life, it's one area where we feel like we're doing things better. (Although that doesn't mean we don't have our own problems with race relations, because we do. A lot)

But there's also a lot of jealousy. Despite our much smaller population and less resources, NZ'ers constantly compare themselves to Aussie's. Why can't we win as many Olympic medals as Australia? Why can't we make good comedy? Why are their movie stars taking over the world? And on and on. Australians seem to be taking over the world at the moment, and I think a lot of Kiwi's feel left behind. It seems like people here want to hold on to that ANZAC connection, but feel like Australia has outgrown it and moved on.
I don't know, as Yossarian said, it's hard to answer clearly.

All I know is NZ feels a huge rivalry with Australia, especially when it comes to sport(!), but I guess I'm unpatriotic since I've rooted for Aussie many times over NZ:)

[Deleted]

Catfrog, excellent post. My parents are both kiwis...and in fact, I technically am too...we moved to Australia when I was little. While I wouldn't say that they resent Aussies (they better not, they've lived here for fifteen years) they have mixed feelings about them. And it's for exactly the same reasons as you mentioned (BTW, the "can't make good comedy" line, that was classic, darling!); Kiwis very frequently feel like Aussies show them up. But, at the same time, Kiwis have a great sense of pride and solidarity, since they come from a place that is so beautiful and unique. And, to a certain extent, most of them like the fact that it's a smaller country with a sparser population. In fact, I know a bunch of Kiwis who complain these days because the country has been overrun by tourists in Lord of the Rings and Narnia costumes.

Oh, and just as an aside here...you better not have rooted against my beloved All Blacks!

[catfrog]

Oh, and just as an aside here...you better not have rooted against my beloved All Blacks!

Hee. Let's just say that as a young bookish girl who loathed sport, it was the height of rebellion to root against the All Blacks, and to support whatever team they were playing.
And a lot of times that meant rooting for the Aussies