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Post by kostgard on Jul 12, 2011 0:27:29 GMT -4
All this talk of Hufflepuff reminds me of a line in the UK Being Human original pilot (the pilot that is not featured on the DVD set, has different actors playing Mitchell and Annie, and yet was still shown on tv). Annie, Mitchell, and George are all discussing what house they would end up in and Annie states, "I quite fancy Hufflepuff actually. I've always thought in Hufflepuff they just spend the day making stuff with safety scissors and glitter." It's funny because it's true! Hee! That's awesome! Welcome to Hufflepuff! Where it's always craft time! That is, when it isn't snack time or nap time! One more thing on the Snape front -- I think Rowling was also using him, Harry and Voldemort to illustrate the power of love. The three of them had pretty similar miserable childhoods. Harry may have lost his parents, but they truly loved him when they were alive, and his mother saved his life with love. Harry ends up being the most loving and kind-hearted of the three. Snape grew up in a household that wasn't exactly loving (and Rowling made it sound like it was abusive - if not physical, then definitely emotional) and he ended up being someone who was pretty miserable and spread his misery to others. But he was also someone who was capable of good, and while he didn't receive love, he definitely longed for it. He loved Lily in a very dysfunctional way, but he still loved someone. And every now and again it seemed like there were hints that if things had gone a bit different for him or if he had made a few different choices, he would have been a very different person. Voldemort was screwed on both the nature and nurture front. His family was beyond effed up. Voldemort never received love, but he also didn't seem all that interested in it either. He didn't give it and he didn't receive it, and he didn't care. Harry is at one end of the spectrum, showing what happens when love is in both the nature and nurture aspects, Snape is in the middle showing what happens when love is in your nature but it gets twisted by the absence of love in your family and environment, and Voldemort is at the other end of the spectrum, with the complete absence of love. |
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Gigiree
Sloane Ranger
Procrastinators Unite. . . Tomorrow.
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Jul 23, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -4
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Post by Gigiree on Jul 12, 2011 11:36:00 GMT -4
The thing I can't get past with Snape is that he horribly bullied an 11-year old child because he didn't like the kid's father. That's why I could never really like the character. He bullied Neville and Hermione, too. He may have redeemed himself somewhat in the end, but if he were a real person, I'd think he was a piece of shit. And that's exactly what makes him such a great character! Real people are neither all good or all bad. Real people are "piece(s) of shit" on occasion and make bad decisions or behave in ways that are irrefutably wrong. Because Snape was ended up being so much more multi-dimensional than how he appeared in HPSS/HPPS, he becomes one of the more compelling characters of the series (IMO). |
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Deleted
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Nov 28, 2024 5:42:11 GMT -4
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 13:34:27 GMT -4
But really, so many people in the HP world would be in prison if they ever had to answer to Child Protective Services. The Durseys kept Harry in a closet and treated him like a servant (and why didn't Dumbledore ever come around and kick their asses for it? Sure, Harry had to stay with them for his safety, but Dumbledore couldn't stop by and say, "Yeeeeeaaaaaah, you need to give the kid an actual room"? Hell, at Hogwarts the kids participated in school-sanctioned functions where they had to fight dragons, etc., there is something as dangerous as the whomping willow right on the grounds, and in the second book kids were getting petrified Medusa-style by some monster, and did anyone even call their parents? In the Muggle world Hogwarts would just be one giant lawsuit waiting to happen. I think that's because Rowling, in essence set Harry Potter in that Enid Blyton/Billy Bunter-type England of the 40s and 50s where kids run around having jolly exciting adventures in ways that wouldn't be allowed with the health and safety rules we have now. |
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Post by kostgard on Jul 12, 2011 20:45:12 GMT -4
And that's exactly what makes him such a great character! Real people are neither all good or all bad. Real people are "piece(s) of shit" on occasion and make bad decisions or behave in ways that are irrefutably wrong. Because Snape was ended up being so much more multi-dimensional than how he appeared in HPSS/HPPS, he becomes one of the more compelling characters of the series (IMO). Sure, he's a compelling character, but I didn't like him and wasn't holding my breath hoping he'd live to be godfather to Harry's children or something. There seem to be a lot of Snape fangirls out there (Snape Wives?) and it makes me wonder if they would still be enamored of him if it weren't Alan Rickman stealing all of Snape's scenes. I think Alan Rickman certainly helps. But I think he'd be a compelling character regardless, and he's got that whole effed up, Healthcliff-from-Wuthering-Heights romantic thing going on. I think his feelings for Lily were dysfunctional (though understandably so), but there are also a lot of people out there who think the stalking in "Twilight" is the height of romance, so there you go. I read recently that Rowling was inspired by the Sidney Carton character from "A Tale of Two Cities" (also frequently seen as a romantic character) and I can see that influence in Snape. |
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Post by MrsCatHead on Jul 13, 2011 0:04:13 GMT -4
All this talk of Hufflepuff reminds me of a line in the UK Being Human original pilot (the pilot that is not featured on the DVD set, has different actors playing Mitchell and Annie, and yet was still shown on tv). Annie, Mitchell, and George are all discussing what house they would end up in and Annie states, "I quite fancy Hufflepuff actually. I've always thought in Hufflepuff they just spend the day making stuff with safety scissors and glitter." Ha! I think this every time too! (Big BH fan here) On topic: LittlestCatHead and I have been re-watching all the films and I'm starting the last book again this weekend (we have tickets for Monday). |
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Post by Mutagen on Jul 20, 2011 11:02:47 GMT -4
Sure, he's a compelling character, but I didn't like him and wasn't holding my breath hoping he'd live to be godfather to Harry's children or something. There seem to be a lot of Snape fangirls out there (Snape Wives?) and it makes me wonder if they would still be enamored of him if it weren't Alan Rickman stealing all of Snape's scenes. This is where I come down on Snape too. I find him a compelling and tragic character and I don't wish for a second that Rowling had toned down his uglier attributes. I thought his/Alan Rickman's scenes in DH2 were the best part of the movie. But I just hate the way some extreme Snape fans romanticize or excuse his mean-ass behavior because he's the Poor Unloved Woobie Who Can Do No Wrong. I think it's especially evil that Snape picked on Neville even though he had to know what had happened to Neville's parents. |
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Post by incognito on Jul 25, 2011 10:43:30 GMT -4
I just started a reread of the series right now. In retrospect, I think the whole "chosen one" thing is the least interesting part of the series to me. When I was younger, I used to like stories like that (e.g. Ender's Game), but now it just makes me cringe, the way the whole world seems to revolve around THE CHOSEN ONE. I just am really, really, reallyreallyreally biased against that particular trope. Right now, I've finished the first couple of chapters of the first book, and the way McGonagall was going, "OMG EVERY CHILD IN THE WORLD WILL KNOW HIS NAME! HE'S FAMOUS! HARRY POTTER DAYYYYY!!!" was making me wince. I know it sounds weird that I hate The Chosen One as a plotline when the main arc of the series is based on that. Whatever, I'm irrational. The series was entertaining enough and the world was richly drawn enough that I was willing to overlook it.  Plus, in the later books, the writing at least became more sophisticated so I didn't feel as if I were being beaten over the head with how the wizarding world revolved around Harry. Although, now that I think about it, one of my favorite books - The Giver by Lois Lowry - also employed "the chosen one" as a trope. But in Lowry's case, it didn't seem as egregious because the whole world/setting didn't seem to revolve around Jonas, the way it did with Ender and Harry. I don't know if that makes any sense. |
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wilbert
Blueblood
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Post by wilbert on Jul 25, 2011 12:43:04 GMT -4
I just started a reread of the series right now. In retrospect, I think the whole "chosen one" thing is the least interesting part of the series to me. When I was younger, I used to like stories like that (e.g. Ender's Game), but now it just makes me cringe, the way the whole world seems to revolve around THE CHOSEN ONE. I just am really, really, reallyreallyreally biased against that particular trope. Right now, I've finished the first couple of chapters of the first book, and the way McGonagall was going, "OMG EVERY CHILD IN THE WORLD WILL KNOW HIS NAME! HE'S FAMOUS! HARRY POTTER DAYYYYY!!!" was making me wince. I know it sounds weird that I hate The Chosen One as a plotline when the main arc of the series is based on that. Whatever, I'm irrational. The series was entertaining enough and the world was richly drawn enough that I was willing to overlook it. Plus, in the later books, the writing at least became more sophisticated so I didn't feel as if I were being beaten over the head with how the wizarding world revolved around Harry. Although, now that I think about it, one of my favorite books - The Giver by Lois Lowry - also employed "the chosen one" as a trope. But in Lowry's case, it didn't seem as egregious because the whole world/setting didn't seem to revolve around Jonas, the way it did with Ender and Harry. I don't know if that makes any sense. Totally agree. Not to mention the Chosen one is always MALE! |
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Gigiree
Sloane Ranger
Procrastinators Unite. . . Tomorrow.
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Jul 23, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -4
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Post by Gigiree on Aug 1, 2011 18:34:36 GMT -4
This is where I come down on Snape too. I find him a compelling and tragic character and I don't wish for a second that Rowling had toned down his uglier attributes. I thought his/Alan Rickman's scenes in DH2 were the best part of the movie. But I just hate the way some extreme Snape fans romanticize or excuse his mean-ass behavior because he's the Poor Unloved Woobie Who Can Do No Wrong. I think it's especially evil that Snape picked on Neville even though he had to know what had happened to Neville's parents. I read something recently where JKR was quoted saying that Snape hated Neville because he knew that Neville could have been The Chosen One, and therefore Lily never would have died. So yeah, he isn't getting a "Poor Woobie" (snicker) pass from me. I never thought about the reason why Snape was such a prick to Neville, but that explanation certainly makes sense in a "Snape is a dysfunctional asshat" sort of way. One thing I wish would have been addressed by JKR is the missing 24 hours. When Voldemort kills James and Lily, accidentally AKs himself and destroys the Potter's cottage in Godric's Hollow, it takes until the following night before Hagrid comes flying to the Dursleys' on Sirius's motorcycle with baby Harry, even though Dumbldore dispatched Hagrid ASAP to fetch Harry from the rubble. I've always wondered what was going on with Harry during that time? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 19:01:16 GMT -4
One thing I wish would have been addressed by JKR is the missing 24 hours. When Voldemort kills James and Lily, accidentally AKs himself and destroys the Potter's cottage in Godric's Hollow, it takes until the following night before Hagrid comes flying to the Dursleys' on Sirius's motorcycle with baby Harry, even though Dumbldore dispatched Hagrid ASAP to fetch Harry from the rubble. I've always wondered what was going on with Harry during that time? Hiding him from Death Eaters and waiting for Dumbledore and McGonagall to get the Dursley's house ready. It probably wouldn't have been immediately clear that the Dursley's would be safe, and it's also unclear whether or not Dumbledore would have known Petunia's whereabouts, since it's unlikely she stayed in touch with Lily. McGonagall says she's spent the day scoping out the place, and Dumbledore probably took some time to put extra spells on the house, too. Hagrid was probably flying around Britain keeping Voldemort's followers off Harry's trail. |
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Plus, in the later books, the writing at least became more sophisticated so I didn't feel as if I were being beaten over the head with how the wizarding world revolved around Harry.