Carnivale

[Deleted]

Since it's coming on in a few hours, I thought I would start a topic.

I can't believe there are only three episodes left. Let's hope there's another season, cuz I don't think they could cram the Final Showdown into three hours.

I'm anxious to see what Justin has in mind for Sofie. And, what will her response be? What will she say when she sees that tattoo? Will Scudder have to make a detour to the Betty Ford clinic if he gets away again? Will Jonesy leave the Carnivale and play baseball again? What will Norman say when he can finally talk again? Will Iris turn on Justin?

Man, I have so many questions. I hope we don't have to wait another 13 months for season 3.

[katiebear3]

I don't buy that cow Rita Sue as a stripper in any time period.

Here are some '30's beauties:

Link

How does she even maintain that figure during the Depression with a bunch of dead broke Carnies?

[Deleted]

I was shocked at the change of pacing between seasons 1 and 2. I really do like the faster pace, but I'm afraid that it signifies that there won't be a season 3. I'd definitely prefer to see it in the 3 season arc as it was intended to be, but I'll have to content myself to having an ending even if the story is abbreviated.

The past two episodes have been intense and amazing. I can't wait to see what's in store for the final two episodes.

[veronicamars]

Can someone briefly tell me what happened this season?

[Deleted]

I was going to write out a short recap of the season, but there's no way to do it w/o skipping tons of relevant stuff. You could read the recaps at HBO.com, they're short enough. Only a page or two. Or you could read the TWoP recaps, which are a lot longer (but not nearly as funny as last season's recaps). I actually missed last night's ep and plan on watching it tonight.

[katiebear3]

I've never seen anything like this in any religion/mythology I've studied. Christianity had a complex demonlogy but nothing remotely like this. The Savior is Christ. Period. The writers ideas of good/evil are nothing like I've ever seen. You shouldn't pull a mythos and ethical system completely out of your ass.

You just shouldn't.

[Deleted]

I actually love that it's nothing like I've ever heard about. I have no idea where it's going, so I'm totally addicted. Plus isn't pulling something out of your ass what fiction is?

[katiebear3]

If they choose to use all this all Christian imagery and vocabulary, I would think the show would contain some of its theological/ethical concepts as well. Which is doesn't. No where near. Just some advice, if you're gonna create your own mythology, being well versed in classic traditions and drawing from them is the best way.

As for the Creature of Light. He's a smuck. And an idiot. And his powers aren't "good" just indifferent. The previous one was a betrayal and murderer. The Russian didn't do anything "good" just chased around a guy who didn't want to fight. This isn't Christian, Hindu or Aristotelian. It's just stupid. And if good's not good, it's just an amoral power struggle.

And it seems like in 1935, the best thing a Creature of Light could be doing is taking the fasted boat to Nazi Germany with a working bazooka. Or at least encouraging FDR to enter the war earlier than we did. Or stopping Mao's assent to power. Or the Russian purges. You see how "good" has its thumb up its ass.

By the way, it seems the Creatures of Darkness would be Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, or at least people who helped them come to power. Not a piece of anonymous whitetrash (Scudder) and the 30's equivalent of Rush Limbaugh.

[Deleted]

Why does a show's writer have to follow any rules at all? Maybe they;re implying that a little bit of every religion is true, which is how some religions have stayed strong for so long. No one religion is "right", and no one religion is "wrong".

Also, no one ever said that the CoL has the power of telling the future. Sure, he has visions that pertain to himself, but he doesn't sit around, all Nostradamus-style, and make predictions. According to what he knows (and he only really knows what the previous CoL knows), the current CoD is going to do something that's going to cause a huge explosion. So, his mission is to stop the CoD from causing the bomb detonation.

Maybe the CoD will somehow influence the men who will come to power, therefor causing WWII by association. We're seeing now that Justin is a bigot, so maybe his words will reach across the ocean to Germany, to the guy (sorry, I forget his name) who originally wrote the pamphlet that Hitler read, and based his thoughts on theories on. It doesn't have to be a clean shot right to Hitler or whoever.

[vacationland]

Maybe the CoD will somehow influence the men who will come to power, therefor causing WWII by association. We're seeing now that Justin is a bigot, so maybe his words will reach across the ocean to Germany, to the guy (sorry, I forget his name) who originally wrote the pamphlet that Hitler read, and based his thoughts on theories on. It doesn't have to be a clean shot right to Hitler or whoever.

Interesting theory, but unfortunately we're way to late in the real-world timeline for Justin to be an influence on Hitler's theories (and eventual attempt at genocide). Carnivale is set in 1934, right? Hitler became Chancellor of Germany in 1933 (giving him dictatorial power) and he was already Fuhrer in 1934. His ideas were pretty well fixed by then; he'd been a leader of his party since around 1920 and his book Mein Kampf had been written just a couple of years after that. By the time of the show's setting, the Nazis are already burning books and putting people in Dachau, although it'll be 1935 before they reinstitute the draft and officially strip Jewish citizens of their rights.

However, CoD/Justin's influence on others involved in the impending conflict is certainly possible--there were plenty of Americans who didn't see what the big deal was with Hitler or understand (or care) that it could eventually involve them. Granted, many of them were too focused on staying alive through the Depression to care, but still, there was little public interest in what was happening on the other side of the world. The act of influencing popular opinion can in itself impact the lives of countless individuals.

The atomic bomb imagery we've seen seems to be establishing a link between the CoD & CoD and their having some influence over the eventual development of nuclear arms (and, by extension, the possibility of causing millions of deaths/the end of the world). What's that quote from Oppenheimer? "I have become death, destroyer of worlds."

The US remained isolationist during the initial buildup and first couple of years of WWII in part because popular opinion held that it wasn't our problem...and people who could sway popular opinion (like, say, charasmatic [evil] radio preachers) might've influenced that. Dealing directly with those in charge (Mao, Stalin, Hirohito, Roosevelt, Hitler, etc.) isn't always the best way to affect change; getting the ear of the masses and convincing them of a course of action often is...and that message need not come from a head of state. Hopping into a boat with a machine gun at this point isn't going to help; we're 5 years away from large-scale combat. Convincing a populace to ignore the man behind the curtain and/or trust the word of [insert public figure here]? That's powerful.