Nip/Tuck

[kafka]

I had thought there was a thread about this but it seems to have vanished. I *know* I posted in it before but maybe I'm imagining that now... (Moldy, did something happen to the threads or am I really losing it??).

Anyway, in light of the upcoming Season Finale, I wanted to ask what you thought about the episodes thus far. I can't make up my mind. This series has always been very "in your face" and extreme, but it seems more so this year. Deliberately so, and not in a good way. IMO, that's because the story lines have been focused on more extreme personal angles in Christian/Sean/Etc's life. They may have fed someone to the alligators in the First Season, but the 4-some and more deliberately/OBVIOUSLY provocative personal story lines have made this seem like the writers are coping out. IMO. Plus, they start story lines just to end them, weirdly and in mid air, like Sean's relationship with the woman in Witness Protection... it just ended like it had never happened. None of it was logical and, YES, logic (and continuity) was *some* part of this show before. Once upon a time...

It was like how they dealt with Julia killing a woman, thinking she was her mother. Not a mention of it afterwards. No trauma, no guilt, no revisitation of the incident. They transformed Julia into a cold hard, ruthless woman, who was freed by supposedly murdering her mother, who then sees she killed someone by mistake.... and it never comes up again (!?!?!?!?)

But what about The Carver? People on other boards seem to be bending over backwards to figure out the body size, dimensions, height and gender. Who do you think it is? I thought a while back that it was Quentin but that doesn't seem to be the case given the picture of him in the previews. People think it can't be a woman because of the build, and I have to agree with that. But some of the guesses are pretty out there --- to my mind.

I think it's going to be someone who wasn't a tangential, one-minute walk-on in the series. But I don't think it's a woman. And I don't think it's Matt either, his endless rage notwithstanding. I definitely don't think it's Liz. If Quentin is too obvious, then......... who do you think it is?

[Deleted]

I think Moldy said somthing on the Q&A thread about deleating topincs that haven't been posted in for 6+ months.

But onto Nip/Tuck,

Anyway, in light of the upcoming Season Finale, I wanted to ask what you thought about the episodes thus far. I can't make up my mind. This series has always been very "in your face" and extreme, but it seems more so this year. Deliberately so, and not in a good way.

I agree, there has been too many 'Squee, let me change to CNN' moments where I have been averting not just my eyes but ears as well, and I am not too squeemish.

As for the Carver, I will feel really jiped if it is Quentin. He is the ovbous choise and I belive the writer's strongest red herring.My gut instinct is Escobar, yes they made him look like some other FBI most wanted guy, but I wonder if he called for a DNA test and when the feds saw he wasn't the guy who's face he had they let him go. Only upon further testing would they find out he was Escobar, but it would be too late. I really don't think it is Liz, or Matt.
Plus I cannot go to the Carver's MySpace, I refuse to. the carver mask freaks me out too much, I am waitng for it to become a trend like the scream mask.

[vegasusa555]

I am so mad because I will have to wait until next tuesday to watch the finale since i'll be out of town! For some reason, I think the Carver is really two people (especially after they showed the room full of girls that had been cut in the preview). I just want to know dammit!

Also, Limey, you're smart to not go on The Carver's "MySpace" page. I logged on there late one night and...yeah, didn't get much sleep that night! Although, I do want to go back and see if he/she posted a new video.

[Deleted]

This season has been all over the place. One minute, I am hooked like the show is the finest crack (loved the S&M story between Christian and the "ugly" woman), but the next I am rather disgusted by the inconsistent storylines and dropped plots. A whole lot of characters and stories were introduced and they just went away. Quentin had great potential but the writers couldn't figure out what to do with him. Gah. A once-great show has been brought low by trying to cram too much into too little time. Not every show has to have something "buzz worthy" in it or top the last episode, but the writers don't seem to get that.

I don't think Ryan Murphy is too involved with this series and that has caused, imo, a huge downturn in episode quality. The reason this show isn't just a bunch of gross and OTT storylines is because of the core relationship between Sean and Christian. The writers have been focusing on the break in that relationship and have separated them WAY TOO MUCH and that has been bad for the show, imo. Julian MacMahon and Dylan Walsh have such great chemistry, it is a huge mistake to keep them apart for too long. Even when they are fighting (which they do... a lot) the connection is palpable. Making them have two entirely separate storylines is just bad television. I hope there is going to be at least one more series because I don't want Nip/Tuck to go out like this.

It was like how they dealt with Julia killing a woman, thinking she was her mother. Not a mention of it afterwards. No trauma, no guilt, no revisitation of the incident. They transformed Julia into a cold hard, ruthless woman, who was freed by supposedly murdering her mother, who then sees she killed someone by mistake.... and it never comes up again (!?!?!?!?)

I didn't really see Julia's actions as "murder". The woman was in pain and was dying (or so I thought) and Julia took her out of that pain. I thought it was a freeing moment for Julia and perhaps she might have to deal with that (the fact that "killing" her mother freed something inside of her) but I don't really see it as something she should feel guilty for or something that needs to be addressed in future episodes. Unlike a lot of the discarded plots, this one doesn't bother me.

[Deleted]

A once-great show has been brought low by trying to cram too much into too little time. Not every show has to have something "buzz worthy" in it or top the last episode, but the writers don't seem to get that.
I don't think Ryan Murphy is too involved with this series and that has caused, imo, a huge downturn in episode quality.

I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head for why this series is sort of dragging. Ryan Murphy seems less involved this year. I know he was working on Running With Scissors and that's why the season was delayed but it almost feels like he's never mentally come back to the show. Or something. That special spark that it used to have is sort of fading. For me at least.

I will confess that I am going crazy trying to figure out who the Carver is. Talk about a well-kept secret.

[Deleted]

If the reveal of the Carver delivers (and it could) that might do a lot to wash away a lot of my bitterness. I am glad the whole season hasn't been all about the Carver, but instead of focusing on something else, the writers focused on EVERYTHING else - except for the relationship between Sean and Christian.

The carver better not be Quentin (too easy) or Bobolit (too incompetent). Anyone else could turn out to be pretty cool if it is handled right.

[kafka]

Moldy, many thanks. I'm just glad I wasn't imagining the whole thing.

thursdaynext said:

I didn't really see Julia's actions as "murder". The woman was in pain and was dying (or so I thought) and Julia took her out of that pain. I thought it was a freeing moment for Julia and perhaps she might have to deal with that (the fact that "killing" her mother freed something inside of her) but I don't really see it as something she should feel guilty for or something that needs to be addressed in future episodes. Unlike a lot of the discarded plots, this one doesn't bother me.

I think your points are all extremely possible -- hell, likely --- and they're definitely logical. I think though that the writers left things up for additional interpretions. While I can see Julia engaged in a mercy killing of an unknown, suffering woman, I can also see her as choosing to deliberately kill her "mother." She felt such relief knowing her mother had died, she gave her farewell speech and felt freed of her mother's shadow and expectations. Then BOOM.... the person came back to life. I don't think it was a mercy killing so much as Julia couldn't take it and snapped.

The real reasons why I thought it was a deliberate action were because of Julia's actions, behavior and attitude afterwards. It was as though she'd gotten imbued with her mother's cold, somewhat callous, independent, detached self. She was superior with Sean; was acknowledged as being a superior type of doctor/trauma responder by Sean (all the things Erica had wanted and thought she could be); turned into a total, indifferent, unemotional B**** with Quentin (which she hadn't been capable of being before, at the beginning of the scene, no matter how badly he'd acted); and generally became a totally transformed person.

To me it was almost too obvious, as though the writers had intended to show her taking on her mother's characteristics and coldness. She'd freed herself from her mother and, ironically, could end up becoming like her mother --- with all the traits that her mother had wanted her to have.

The final scene when she comes into her apartment and sees Erica, she clearly (and very physically) wilts. Wilting symbolically back into her shell....

All those touches made me think the writers were trying to make the woman's death seem almost deliberate. But I can definitely see your reading of it.

Either way, I *am* surprised they dropped the story line altogether. I find it hard to believe that Julia had no guilt over the situation, even if it was a supposed mercy killing of a stranger (even though she did NOT know that at the time). It can't be easy to kill someone. The first time is traumatic even for professional soldiers, so for a housewife like Julia when she thought the person was her mother???

Regardless, there are too many loose ends dropped at the expense of increasingly outrageous story lines. Whatever happened with Erica, there wasn't even a one word mention about her miraculous escape the prior week, so there is a choppy break and cut between episodes. And don't even start me on how they made no mention of the Witness Protection woman Sean had been involved with (and did she really just leave, was he hallucinating the scene with the killer, or did the killer clean up after himself and leave a note?), no further mention of Kit after being sliced up by the Carver, and so much more.

I think you nailed it when you said this season's real problem stems from Sean & Christian's separation, and the problems it creates with internal cohesiveness in terms of plot and general mood. It creates at least two, different tracks for the story lines; but then the writers went on and added more. There was the Idiot Cretin Son and the numerous, NUMEROUS ways in which he screwed up; Julia's business; Quentin; Christian & Kimber; Christian and his mother; Christian and Kit; the Carver; Liz's departure for the spa, not to mention more of the foul Gina; Sean & the Witness protection business... etc. etc.

Some of those things are related to the underlying triangle of Sean/Julia/Christian but most aren't. There are too many offshoots, and definitely too many tangential sub-sub-plots which were given undue attention, imo. I doubt FX will end the series this year because it is still popular, but they better get back on track next year.

[Deleted]

Just to let anyone who wants to know, the season finale is titled:
Quentin Costa.

[marywebgirl]

And don't even start me on how they made no mention of the Witness Protection woman Sean had been involved with (and did she really just leave, was he hallucinating the scene with the killer, or did the killer clean up after himself and leave a note?)

Don't ask me to go back and find the post, but I'm pretty sure that someone on TWoP posted an interview with Ryan Murphy where he stated that she and her son were actually killed.

[huntergrayson]

Really? Interesting. Because that wasn't clear at all.

Okay, I'll say it. I kinda don't care who the carver is as much as it affects the characters. And I think the body type is not a good indicator at all -- as people at TWoP pointed out, it makes more financial sense to hire an extra than pay a regular.

There better be a LOT of deleted scenes on the S3 DVDs or Ryan Murphy better wait a while to direct his next film.

Oh and I really wanted Julia to have the abortion because (a) how sad is it that we've apparently regressed as a society since Maude in the 70s and (b) having the show have an abortion on Christmas Eve would pretty much be the ultimate F-You response to the family values groups protesting the show.