Royalty in History

[Ginger]

That article is a bit misleading - scientists have never agreed whether the missing female was Maria or Anastasia. There are a surprising number of Anna Anderson supporters who still do not believe the discovery of these bones proves anything since these are only "shards" and not necessarily separate skeletons from the ones that were already found, even though the historical accounts all say that Alexei & one female were burned & buried separately from the rest.

I've been reading a lot about the Romanovs lately, so I checked out some forums...The Royal Forums have a ton of Anna Anderson nuts (including Peter Kurth and Richard Schweitzer if anybody is familiar with them) who at first argued that the DNA tests that proved Anna Anderson was not related to the Romanovs were bogus because DNA tests were not as reliable in 1994. This theory has been shot down by DNA experts, so they now claim that a conspiracy of Anna Anderson's enemies successfully swapped Anderson's 2 separate DNA samples. If you go into those forums, you will be harangued by people who insist Anderson was Anastasia because they both had bunions and similar shaped ears ("17 points of similarity! 17 points of similarity! How do you explain that?"), while ignoring things like DNA and the fact that she couldn't even speak Russian.

The Alexander Palace, which is a great Romanov site, has a rule that Anna Anderson discussion is welcome, but it must proceed with the understanding that there will be no debates about whether she was/wasn't as she has been proven to be an imposter.

[Deleted]

I think they did facial feature analysis, along with the age development and what not. Either way, it's done-they found them, whether it's Maria or Anastasia.

Burning-it's impossible to completely burn a body in a common bonfire. If I haven't mentioned it, my father's a mortician. Even after cremation, there's still plenty of bone fragments. So there were definitely enough remains to find.

As for Anna Anderson, I think she was really mentally ill, and came to believe she really WAS Anastasia. Then she was used by everyone around her. I have to feel sorry for the poor woman.

Kurth wasn't as bad as James Blair Lovell-but he died a while back.

[woodchipper]

Ginger, can you recommend a particular book about the Romanovs? The DNA story has piqued my interest!

[azaleaqueen]

The fact that Anna couldn't speak Russian doesn't mean much. The royal family spoke French. (No, I'm not saying I believe she was one of them.)

[Mouse]

I think Mary Stuart was a total airhead and one of the biggest fuckups in history. Truly an overrated historical figure, IMO.

[Ginger]

The fact that Anna couldn't speak Russian doesn't mean much. The royal family spoke French.

Not the children. Nicholas grew up speaking French, but he was very patriotic and wanted Russian spoken in his court. He raised his children to speak Russian and English - English when their mother was present because that was her language, Russian the rest of the time. They weren't taught French or German until they were teenagers, and none of them did very well with those languages (except for Alexei, who did well with French).

So it's funny that Anna Anderson spoke neither Russian nor English - but did speak fluent German. Anderson did learn to speak English after six or seven years, but badly. I heard a tape of her speaking English when she was very old, and she spoke it haltingly with a very thick Eastern European accent. All of the Romanovs (including the Tsar, Tsarina, and the extended family) spoke perfect English with British accents, and the children had a British tutor. It is inconceivable that Anastasia would speak English like that - basically like a Polish woman who learned the language in her twenties.

Ginger, can you recommend a particular book about the Romanovs? The DNA story has piqued my interest!

Nicholas and Alexandra by Robert K. Massie was written 40 years ago, and it's still the best. It's long, but for a history book it's a real page turner. The only research that is outdated is the stuff about the family's burial because the details of that didn't come out until the 70s.

I really enjoyed A Lifelong Passion[/color], which is excerpts from their letters & diaries (very romantic!), but you'll probably get more out of it after you know their whole story.

If you are interested in the DNA issues, I would first recommend that you watch the Nova special Anastasia: Dead or Alive which shows the techniques they used for sorting the bones & identifying the bodies. The Romanovs: The Final Chapter (also by Robert Massie) is on the same topic but more thorough. (I skipped over a few chapters in that one--some of the legal issues he writes about were not that interesting to me.)

The only book I wouldn't recommend is the biography The Last Tsar, only because it's hard to follow & is heavy on the author's theories & light on facts.

[Deleted]

And do NOT read anything by James Blair-Lovell. He's another Anderson partisaan, and his writing style is horrid.

Now, these are MY personal favorites. Try to find them in your local libraries (note-many of these ARE coffee table books, to be fair)

-Nicholas and Alexandra: The Family Albums
-Tsar: The Lost World of Nicholas and Alexandra
-The Camera and the Tsars: A Romanov Family Album
-The Romanovs: Love, Power & Tragedy
-Royal Russia: The Private Albums of the Russian Imperial Family *this one IS from Lovell's collection, but it's a great source of photos
-Michael and Natasha: The Life And Love Of Michael Ii, The Last Of The Romanov Tsars
-The Flight of the Romanovs: A Family Saga
-The Fate of the Romanovs
-Romanov Autumn: Stories from the Last Century of Imperial Russia
-Alexandra: The Last Tsarina



And the following documentary:
Nicholas and Alexandra

WHEW! Now THAT was a pain in the ass. Next time, I'll write it out in wordpad, then transfer it over.

[oceansun]

Thanks for all the recommendations, y'all. I've also added them to my book list. I just read this entire thread in one sitting and it's been really enlightening. I love me some crazy royals. I have to ask - any good books on Queen Victoria or on Cleopatra? They both seem like fascinating women, especially the latter. Most of the reading I've done is on the Tudors (I'm obsessed) and Marie Antoinette.

[Deleted]

I know quite a bit for Victoria and her family-I'll look them up when I get home from work.

[Deleted]

Funny you should mention Cleopatra, oceansun. Yesterday a coworker told me about a "history of sex" show he watched, I think on HBO, where Cleopatra was credited with inventing the vibrator! Not the battery kind, of course, but the bunch-of-bees-inside-a-hollowed-out-gourd kind. Even if there's no credible evidence for that (what are they going to do, dig up a Polaroid?) it's what I'm going to believe from now on.