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Post by chonies on Sept 13, 2016 18:38:54 GMT -4
Exactly! I mean, these are the dumb, banal questions I have in my mind. Did the average Briton ca. 1917 think, "burn Alix! She's a German!" or were they thinking, "well, she/they are the king's cousins, even if Wilhelm is, too..." or even, "end the monarchy! All of them!" Or was it a strange, complicated mix of the above? Or was it, "eh, f*ck 'em?" [shrugs, back to whatever task was at hand]?
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Post by azaleaqueen on Sept 13, 2016 19:09:59 GMT -4
Can you imagine Thanksgiving dinner with this family?
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Post by Ginger on Sept 13, 2016 21:28:10 GMT -4
Can you imagine Thanksgiving dinner with this family? I would imagine the first topic of conversation would be, "Why are we celebrating Thanksgiving?" I did read that when George V and Nicholas II attended family gatherings, their family members had a hard time not mixing them up because they looked the same and talked the same. |
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Post by Auroranorth on Sept 14, 2016 22:43:36 GMT -4
Exactly! I mean, these are the dumb, banal questions I have in my mind. Did the average Briton ca. 1917 think, "burn Alix! She's a German!" or were they thinking, "well, she/they are the king's cousins, even if Wilhelm is, too..." or even, "end the monarchy! All of them!" Or was it a strange, complicated mix of the above? Or was it, "eh, f*ck 'em?" [shrugs, back to whatever task was at hand]? There was very strong anti-German sentiment in England then. There were some anti-German riots, assaults on suspected Germans and looting of stores owned by people with German-sounding names. Prince Louis of Battenburg was forced to step down as First Sea Lord after a 40-year career in the navy because he was a German prince by birth, despite being a British citizen. The German Shepherd was renamed the Alsatian Shepherd, the Dachshund breed was used as a shorthand for political cartoonists mocking Germany. In 1917 King George V relinquished all the royal family's German titles and changed his last name to Windsor because of the prevailing attitude. Kaiser Wilhelm is reputed to have heard about the name changed and quipped that he was going to see "The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha," which was the abandoned last name. (Personally, I don't think he had enough of a sense of humor to make that crack, but it's still funny.) |
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piscessiren
Landed Gentry
"Every joke is a tiny revolution" George Orwell
Posts: 855
Dec 10, 2005 13:25:57 GMT -4
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Post by piscessiren on Sept 15, 2016 13:03:05 GMT -4
Mix in the 1916 Easter Uprising in Ireland, and the last thing Britain needed was the Russian cousins moving in.
France was fighting the Germans, and America was busy being "neutral".
Where could they have gone? Denmark was neutral too, and Nicholas was Danish on his mother's side. Who knows what would have happened if he had abdicated much earlier that he did.
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Post by chonies on Sept 15, 2016 13:28:22 GMT -4
Exactly! I mean, these are the dumb, banal questions I have in my mind. Did the average Briton ca. 1917 think, "burn Alix! She's a German!" or were they thinking, "well, she/they are the king's cousins, even if Wilhelm is, too..." or even, "end the monarchy! All of them!" Or was it a strange, complicated mix of the above? Or was it, "eh, f*ck 'em?" [shrugs, back to whatever task was at hand]? There was very strong anti-German sentiment in England then. There were some anti-German riots, assaults on suspected Germans and looting of stores owned by people with German-sounding names. Prince Louis of Battenburg was forced to step down as First Sea Lord after a 40-year career in the navy because he was a German prince by birth, despite being a British citizen. The German Shepherd was renamed the Alsatian Shepherd, the Dachshund breed was used as a shorthand for political cartoonists mocking Germany. In 1917 King George V relinquished all the royal family's German titles and changed his last name to Windsor because of the prevailing attitude. Kaiser Wilhelm is reputed to have heard about the name changed and quipped that he was going to see "The Merry Wives of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha," which was the abandoned last name. (Personally, I don't think he had enough of a sense of humor to make that crack, but it's still funny.) Oh, without a doubt I'm definitely aware of all this, but as far as the internal sorting out or mindsets of the average citizen (as far as one can be average), I'm still kind of curious about how people saw this mess. IIRC, there was an episode of Foyle's War that kind of poked it although in re: WWII and nothing about the monarchy. |
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Post by Auroranorth on Sept 15, 2016 14:04:48 GMT -4
Yes, there were a lot of pro-German Irish at that time who had no love for England.
Spain was neutral, but I don't think the Prime Minister would have allowed it. Portugal was a republic and had no interest in them. The Greek royals were in exile in Switzerland. Norway was neutral and Queen Maud was Alexandra's cousin. Sweden was neutral and the crown princess Margarethe was also Alexandra's cousin, however, I don't think she could have overruled the king and queen. Denmark was neutral and the King was Nicholas's cousin, I'm not sure why they couldn't go there.
To answer your question, Chonies, the potential offer was widely known about in England. I just found this quote online from a bio of George V by Kenneth Rose. Baron Stamfordham, George V's private secretary wrote to Arthur Balfour, the then Foreign Secretary.
So it sounds like them coming could have been politically disastrous. Nicholas was viewed- and not entirely unjustly- as a cruel and bloodthirsty tyrant. Alexandra was generally seen as pro-German.
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Post by carrier76 on Sept 15, 2016 20:01:57 GMT -4
Just popping in to say that I am loving this discussion. I love learning about and discussing this time period. Watching Downton Abbey has made me even more interested.
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gremlin45
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,136
Dec 9, 2008 19:29:13 GMT -4
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Post by gremlin45 on Sept 15, 2016 21:15:24 GMT -4
Just popping in to say that I am loving this discussion. I love learning about and discussing this time period. Watching Downton Abbey has made me even more interested. Another TV series that covers this period (it actually covers from 1903-1930) is the original Upstairs, Downstairs. Season 4 covers WW1. |
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Post by azaleaqueen on Sept 16, 2016 10:24:23 GMT -4
Maybe OT, but if you like Downton, you'd love Upstairs, Downstairs. They both give insight as to the way of life of the day and time.
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