New Wave Music

[Deleted]

*dreamy sigh*

That is Reason Number One to spring for XM, ain't it?

It is! It is!

Yaz's "Situation" and "Don't Go" are my jams!

Looooooooooove Yaz. Loooooooooove them.

And may I nominate the 12" single of Bronski Beat's "Smalltown Boy" for one of the best new wave songs ever! (If, in fact, they are new wave.)

Sisters of Mercy and Bauhaus cultivate more of a goth image and sound than new wave. You could even put Joy Division into the more goth category of post-punk.

Was there a goth movement in the early 80s? I was so wrapped up in all things Fiorucci-related, I didn't notice!

[starskin]

Woo hoo, other people are posting on this thread! I was half afraid it would just be Kafka and me going back and forth for eternity!
See, already there's the debate of what NW is or isn't, and it's a major sticking point, since a large part of what I want to talk about hinges on this. It's a huge umbrella and bands that have seemingly nothing to do with each other are under it. However, Dwan brings up a great point, which I hadn't actually thought of before:

dwanollah said:

Their sound as a whole moved from pop to New Wave to Alternative so I don't think they can be categorized as New Wave over all.

Although back then, New Wave WAS alternative. It's not the bands that changed so much as the catagories. Or variety of them.

So perhaps, kind of like punk, NW was as much about an idea or ethos (being "alternative" to what was out there) as it was about a sound. For a long time punk and NW were lumped into the same category, since they were so different than what was being played on radio at the time. The term "new wave" was interchangable in the begining with "punk rock"----which is really weird when you consider that The Sex Pistols sound absolutely nothing like A Flock of Seagulls. But again, they were both wildly different than the mainstream.

Argh. I don't know. There's so much to consider and I'm afraid I'm going to bog down my central arguement with too many caveats. Bleh.

But to talk about something fun: I love Depeche Mode. Love. Them. Whether or not they're New Wave, synth pop or what have you, they're amazing.
True story: I used to really dislike 80's music---or what I thought was 80's music---until I discovered Depeche Mode. My friend bought Black Celebration for my birthday. By the time the instrumentation kicked in with that giant clang on the title track (you know that part I mean), I was instantly and irrevocably hooked.



And yes, the goth scene was begining, particularly in England, around the same time as New Wave. Bauhaus is *definitely* in this group. Peter Murphy has the perfect goth voice and face. Weird, sexy and vampiric. Hehehe.



Edited: Oh, did someone say The Smiths? Because this is the shirt I'm currently wearing. /fangirl!

[carrier76]

I think A Flock of Seagulls is the perfect synth band and I don't know why they get so little respect.

I think their crazy hair and the way that people have made fun of that over the years have done much to derail their attempts at getting respect. "Space Age Love Song" is a dreamy, dreamy synthy bit of goodness.

My fave of this genre is New Order. I don't even know why, but I have almost every album by them and LURVE them all. Maybe it is the fact that a lot of their music is devoid of emotion ("Temptation" obviously does not fit the mold)? I don't know. OR the fact that it's catchy and so, so danceable?

What's interesting about Joy Division is that they encompass every "alternative" genre of the time. "Warsaw" is totally punk. "Atmosphere", gothy. And "Love Will Tear Us Apart" has that soaring synth line that bumps them up to New Wave.

Let us not forget the contributions of Electronic, when the worlds of New Order, The Smiths and Pet Shop Boys collided. Ah.

[dwanollah]

Hopefully you guyses and this thread can help me like Depeche Mode again. My Depechier Than Thou ex, DumbAss, kinda ruined them for me.

I recently discovered some early, barely-known New Wave examples, like Anne Clark. My New Wave playlist is titled "Why Wasn't I All Cool Like This Back Then?!"

[starskin]

carrier76 said:

I think A Flock of Seagulls is the perfect synth band and I don't know why they get so little respect.

I think their crazy hair and the way that people have made fun of that over the years have done much to derail their attempts at getting respect. "Space Age Love Song" is a dreamy, dreamy synthy bit of goodness.

Ah ha! Yep, that's exactly it. I'm not incredibly familiar with a lot of Flock of Seagulls, but they were played a lot at the 80's club I used to frequent and I always liked what I heard. I think they suffer the most obviously from a problem that a lot of 80's artists suffer from: their outrageous image is the only thing people rememeber, rather than the music. Culture Club has the same problem, and so do a host of other NW/New Romantic bands. It's kind of funny, because image was a big part of the NW movement, but it certainly wasn't more important than the music. And yet, the image is mostly what people remember. And it vexes me! I am terribly vexed! The music is good enough to be appreciated on its own merit!

And Dwan, man, I am so sorry your ex ruined Depeche for you. Would you like me to scratch his eyes out?
Don't sweat it though. I've gotten over exes ruining the likes of David Bowie, U2 and the Divine Comedy. It's taken me awhile to do so, but eventually I realized that I didn't want to let these people control what I did and didn't listen to. Reclaim the band for yourself! It'll take time, but eventually the greatness of the music will cancel out the badness of your asshole ex.

I'm still willing to scratch his eyes out though.

Edit: And I'm intrigued by the artists you've discovered. Would you be able to send me some examples via YouSendIt?

[kafka]

littleediebeale said:

And may I nominate the 12" single of Bronski Beat's "Smalltown Boy" for one of the best new wave songs ever! (If, in fact, they are new wave.)

I don't know about that, LittleEdieBeale. There would be some tough competition from "Why?" or even "Hit that perfect beat"... ;D (The Maxi version of the latter is particularly brill). I'm so glad you brought up Bronski Beat because they were on my mind a lot last night when I was fuming over the B-52s being considered as NW. (Starskin, I know you weren't saying they are and were only conveying information, so please don't think I was fuming at you. Just at the random "whomever" who thought so.)

I like the B-52s okay but to include them with my beloved Depeche Mode is going too far. Bronski Beat, hell yes, some of the others mentioned here, sure but the B-bloody-52s? Gah. It offends the soul.

Sisters of Mercy and Bauhaus cultivate more of a goth image and sound than new wave. You could even put Joy Division into the more goth category of post-punk.

Was there a goth movement in the early 80s? I was so wrapped up in all things Fiorucci-related, I didn't notice!

Heh. Me too on the Fiorucci thing. On the other point mentioned above, I would include The Cure as a group that was more goth post-punk than NW, although they came closer to straddling the line (imo) than Bauhaus.

Starskin, if you love Depeche Mode, then get Cause & Effect's Trip as well as their other album, "Another Minute." Run, don't walk to the store. Seriously. You'll love them. They're my 2nd favorite band in the world. And whenever I'm really, really upset, they're the people I listen to, not Depeche Mode. Which actually says quite a bit given my fanatical passion for DM. So get their albums and consider it a research investment!

Dwan, I agree on C&E's last two albums. I think they're planning a new one judging by something I read on their MySpace page, so hopefully it will be better. And, if it's not, they will still have my undying loyalty forever and ever for those prior 2 albums.

Okay, two questions for the group:
1) No love for Sisters of Mercy? Really? I feel so lonely in my little corner all by myself. <sniffle>

2) where do you think Evanescence would fall in terms of classification?


ETA: Dwan, I'll happily join Starskin in scratching your Ex's eyes. But for many more reasons than the fact that he ruined the Sacred Divine Depeche Mode for you!

[satellite]

1) No love for Sisters of Mercy? Really? I feel so lonely in my little corner all by myself. <sniffle>

Love them, but I'm not too keen on Vision Thing, except for the song "Ribbons". They played NY a few months ago, and way too much Vision Thing music. "Destination Boulevard" is in the movie Showgirls (yes that Showgirls) I did a quick WTF upon hearing it there for the first time.

My faves are "Flood" pts 1 & 2, "Marian" and "Nine While Nine".

If any of you guys live in or visit Miami, this club called Soho Lounge in downtown Miami (not the beach) has an excellent goth/industrial room on Sat. nights.

[Deleted]

Edited: Oh, did someone say The Smiths? Because this is the shirt I'm currently wearing. /fangir

Where'd you get THAT? That's awesome. I have a Meat is Murder t-shirt...but the collar is way too high, dammit on the shoddy construction! (I saw The Smiths in '85—Billy Bragg was the opener. Greatest. Concert. EVER!)

Anyone remember Ministry before they went metal? "With Sympathy" was a record of perfection.

And yet, the image is mostly what people remember. And it vexes me! I am terribly vexed! The music is good enough to be appreciated on its own merit!

I think that's an interesting assessment, starskin and I think a lot of the "image over substance" comes from (and this is my half-baked theory) the video movement that boomed right around '81-'82. Image WAS important at the time—music videos were just entering our collective consciousness and the hairstyles and clothes of these bands were like nothing we had ever seen. That's why I was partly so enamored of the NW movement—it was so outrageous for the times.

I'll throw this out there to see if anyone remembers, so here goes...does anyone else remember Don Kirschner's Rock Concert? I think NBC used to run it on Friday nights back then. Anyway, one night, they had a "very special" DK Rock Concert (maybe '81?) that featured only NW artists. The BEST part was before the show opened, a title card came up and said because of the very special nature of the music, there would be "no talking" to intro the songs. Why? Who the hell knows! Anyway, they played some Bowie, The Cars, Lene Lovich (LOVE HER!!!)—the rest I don't remember. Maybe some Gary Numan, too? (Yoo hoo, white falcon!). Anyway, it was a life-changing night of TV for a teen who was sick of only hearing Pink Floyd/Zeppelin/The Doors revival music. (Not that I dislike those artists, but the music never really moved me like NW did.)

My New Wave playlist is titled "Why Wasn't I All Cool Like This Back Then?!"

First: Screw the ex. Put some DM on that iPod and enjoy! Also, when I was "cool" like that back in the 80s, and my friends were "cool," we'd get TORTURED in high school. My male friends were regularly beat up for dressing in fab 80s gear and me, well, my "friends" who hated new wave would litter my lawn with broken new wave artist records. Way to screw up a perfectly good "Diamond Dogs" album, idiots! There was a price to be paid for being that cool back then. These days I doubt anyone would bat an eye at the goth kid or the punk kid, but back then it was a huge deal to step out of the rock n' roll line in the suburbs. Sad, but true—at least where I grew up.

There would be some tough competition from "Why?" or even "Hit that perfect beat"... (The Maxi version of the latter is particularly brill)

Oh, I'm with ya, Kafka. But "Smalltown Boy"'s lyrics hold a special place in my heart, so I'm totally biased.

1) No love for Sisters of Mercy? Really? I feel so lonely in my little corner all by myself. <sniffle>

I feel like I missed the Sisters of Mercy train—I just wasn't that familiar with them back then. I've heard on of their songs (which I loved) on the digital Retro-active channel and of course, now completely forget the name.

I love this thread!

[satellite]

True confession time. If I ever get married, it would be my fantasy to hire The Cure to play, even if I could only afford to have like 10 wedding guests there. Floating across the floor to "Plainsong", or "The Same Deep Water as You" would just be the height of romance.

[kafka]

satellite said:

Love them, but I'm not too keen on Vision Thing, except for the song "Ribbons". They played NY a few months ago, and way too much Vision Thing music. "Destination Boulevard" is in the movie Showgirls (yes that Showgirls) I did a quick WTF upon hearing it there for the first time.

I agree, Satellite. I'm not a great fan of Vision Thing either. Didn't know one of their songs was in Showgirls though. That's.... that's..... um.... beyond odd.

My faves are "Flood" pts 1 & 2, "Marian" and "Nine While Nine".

My favorites are This Corrosion, Flood I, Dominion/Mother Russia, and then Flood II. I think "This Corrosion" is probably one of the best, most haunting songs out there.

Ya, know, between Sisters of Mercy & Rammstein, we have pretty similar tastes!

Ohh, just thought of another great group: Enigma. Definitely tending more towards the alternative range of things but I used to love them with a passion. And their Mea Culpa is still one of my favorite "sex you up" songs ever.