Pills & Pucci: Those Sex & Shopping Novels!

[Auroranorth]

I liked Sasha- I couldn't really identify with Gigi, and I also loved Valentine.

Barbara Taylor Bradford had the character who was fatally killed, didn't she?

[Deleted]

Aaargh! Damn it! I've actually been on a feminist reading kick and after The Feminine Mystique and The Second Sex, I felt like something lighter. Valley of the Dolls was recommended, I loved it and now after reading this thread, I've been completely derailed and just want to gorge myself on all the shopping and fucking novels I can get my hands on.

So Valley of the Dolls is considered by some to be an important novel from the time of early feminism and I do agree. I dug the way all the women took care of their own shit and used whatever opportunities were available to them to make their own fortunes. Mostly the book's an expose of the utterly abhorrent way women were treated in that era - pieces of meat with a use by date of 35 years or so. Seriously the conversation Lyon Burke and George Bellows have about Neely wanting a man is the most vilely misogynistic thing I've ever read.

Now forget the serious stuff, on to the wonderful, trashy drama! I don't like Neely as much as everyone else seems to. I was hoping the friendship between the 3 women would be the one constant, strong thing (a la SATC) so the way Neely ended up treating Anne made her dead to me. My favourite character was Helen Lawson, no contest. The book only kicked into gear for me when Helen rips Anne a new one for spoiling her sexy times with Gino and from then on it's non-stop fun.

Lovely, tragic Jennifer was the best of the main 3 (But is that sleep cure thing real?) I thought Tony Polar's story was pretty tragic as well (although I don't get the correlation between being mentally 10 and being a anal rapist).

I can't wait to watch the movie now, especially since I've read that they change Anne's ending. Even though I believe Anne would have left Lyon (who's seriously jumped to the top of my list of most hated fictional characters) eventually, it will give me great pleasure to actually see it on screen.

[Deleted]

Is Neely supposed to be likable? I've only seen the movie but isn't she supposed to be a kind of overrated spoiled little bitch who gets hers?

[BinkyBetsy]

Aug 1, 2009 20:09:05 GMT -4 @georgia said:

Is Neely supposed to be likable? I've only seen the movie but isn't she supposed to be a kind of overrated spoiled little bitch who gets hers?

There's a major difference between Movie Neely and Book Neely. Helen Lawson had Movie Neely fired off her show, whereas Book Neely was the understudy who got her first break because Helen had fired a different girl. The ladies' room wig stealing incident happens in both versions, but whereas Movie Neely is taking revenge on Helen for crossing her up, Book Neely is indeed a spoiled little bitch. When Helen points out that Neely wouldn't be where she is without Helen, Book Neely laughs in her face and says she would have become a star anyway. Well, maybe so, but there was just no good reason for Book Neely to go off on Helen. Movie Neely did have a score to settle, so she could be somewhat sympathetic. Book Neely is pure raging ego.

As for Tony Polar, I prefer the movie version of that, too. They changed to his just having Parkinson's, right? Which no one saw coming, and which didn't affect his brain. Whereas Book Tony had some unnamed congenital disease (which his older sister knew about and warned Jennifer away from having his baby) that made him mentally high-functioning retarded and caused him to waste away physically, starting in middle age. I believe that like I believe sparkly vampires.

[Deleted]

there was just no good reason for Book Neely to go off on Helen.

Well, Book Neely rips off the wig (even writing that cracks me up) because Helen Lawson calls her children 'fags' (boy, did J Susann love that word - and 'kip' which I'd never heard to describe sex before), but yeah, the verbal-bashing Neely gives Helen beforehand isn't really justified.

Is Neely supposed to be likable? I've only seen the movie but isn't she supposed to be a kind of overrated spoiled little bitch who gets hers?

I might be influenced by the introduction by the journalist Julie Burchill that my edition of the book has. She basically trumpets Neely as the 'winner' among the 3 women because she ends the book on a high and considers Neely's speech about only relying on herself and her talent to be the feminist voice of the novel. I dunno, it made me think J-Su meant for Neely to be the true heroine.

Oh and is Movie Neely considered overrated? Because Book Neely is supposed to be The Greatest Singer Eva.

[Deleted]

Wow, if Neeley is worse in the book, I can't imagine how she turned out to be the heroine.

Love Patty Duke, but movie Neeley can't sing for shit.

[huntergrayson]

If by "worse" you mean "even more over-the-top and therefore awesome," then, yes, she is "worse."

My copy of VOTD's re-release has someone from the Village Voice talking about how "prescient" the book's "protofeminism" is. I do think it's interesting how even as Susann's heroines pine over guys, they also remain determined to have a career and make their own way in the world - look at Anne refusing Allen's easy security and continuing to work.

Plus, there's Helen's speech about how if an actor does something, he's "difficult," but if a woman does it, she's a "bitch."

If I ever go to grad-school, a paper on Susann, feminism and gender roles would be a great topic. It would be really interesting to see the connection - because VOTD came out in '66 - which is right around when the first-wave of feminism began.

Jennifer is such a great character. It stinks how much they cut out for the movie. Sharon isn't much of an actress, but, hey, Jennifer's not supposed to be. She was, however, so beautiful.

[Deleted]

Aug 9, 2009 19:50:51 GMT -4 @huntergrayson said:

If by "worse" you mean "even more over-the-top and therefore awesome," then, yes, she is "worse."

That is exactly what I meant .

Maybe I'm just not remembering her very well but what I mainly remember is her pulling off the wig and then freaking out in the alley. Oh and my trying to get my hair to do what Patty Dukes' did.

Maybe it is time for a Netflix re-viewing.

Has anyone read Yargo?

I started reading this in Redbook or one of those magazines as a kid. My Mom saw that it was written by Jacqueline Susann and promptly took the magazine away from me.

[deelight]

A huge difference I noticed between the movie and the book is there was no Henry in the movie!! I've only seen it once so maybe he shows up somewhere, but he is such an integral part of the book that his absence seemed very noticeable in the movie.

[dwanollah]

Wheeee, got my DVD of Mistral's Daughter today in the mail! Stacy Keech as Julian Mistral was abysmal casting. Actually, most of the casting in this is vile.