Queen Elizabeth II

[cancan]

Jan 19, 2023 10:39:24 GMT -4 Ladybug said:

Here's how Harry describes asking the Queen for permission to propose to Meghan

“This moment was either the start of my life or the end,” he says. “It would all come down to the words I chose, how I delivered them and how granny heard them. I needed to get to it without one more second of hesitation. I saw her waiting for me to speak, and not waiting patiently. Her expression screamed: ‘Out with it.'” Finally, the Duke of Sussex said, “Granny, you already know that I love Meg a lot, and I have decided that I’d like to ask her to marry me, and they’ve told me that… Well…. I have to get your authorization before asking for her hand.” The Queen replied, “You have to do that?” “Yes,” Prince Harry said, “That’s what your people have said and mine too.” After what the royal describes as an “agonizingly long pause,” the Queen replied, “Well then I suppose I have to say yes.”

“She felt she had to say yes? Did that mean that she was saying yes, but wanted to say no?” writes the royal. “I didn’t understand. Was she being sarcastic? Ironic? Deliberately cryptic? Was she allowing herself a bit of wordplay? I don’t remember my grandmother being a fan of wordplay and this would have been the strangest time to start being one (without mentioning tremendously inappropriate).”

You are the only one who's confused about her meaning, Harry.

Harold wouldn't recognize wordplay if it punched him in the face.

[OnyxRose]

He’s truly an idiot.

[luckylexie]

I’m pissed off on the Queen’s behalf that Harry is trying to twist the narrative. It was reported in the media that he needed the sovereign’s permission to marry, but that it’s only a formality in this day and age.

Fuck off, Harry, with you trying to make the Queen a villain here.

[tiggertoo]

They twist everything. Remember William said the queen told him to invite whoever he wanted to his wedding? But Meghan was forbidden to invite a family member which would have brought her family representation up to two people.

[royalwave]

This is one episode in the book that the Celebrity Memoir Book Club girls had a good laugh about. Why wouldn't you just say "I'd love to have your blessing to marry Meg" like a normal person vs. making it awkward with the whole "I've been told you need to approve this..." angle. What a moron.

Lots of people still ask parents for their blessing these days and it's pretty much always just a formality/sign of respect. Leave it to Harry to twist it into something bizarre.

[Ginger]

It was "either the start of his life or the end". As if he wasn't going to marry Meghan even if the Queen said no, which she never would have?

Always with the drama.

[featherhat]

Until 2013 *a lot* of people technically needed to ask permission from HM to get married to stay in the line of succession at 700+, even if they'd never even met her. We're talking minor German ex royals who showed the formal agreement letter on Instagram. It staggers me that Harry allegedly didn't know when his brother and cousins who married a few years before had to. Even without the fact that his granny is Queen so many US movies have "got to get grandmother's permission/blessing to use the ring" (or in this case tiara) trope. It's some not unheard of thing.

There is no way she would have said no, even if she had wanted to and if she theoretically did then they would have married anyway.

But I guess anything that smacks of a roadblock to Harry doing whatever the hell he likes even in a non threatening way is bad.

[Auroranorth]

When Caroline de Monaco married Prince Ernst August of Hanover, he had to ask permission from the Queen because he is in the line of succession (though somewhere down around 450th at this point). Caroline had to get permission from her father Prince Rainier, and the Monégasque court had to notify the government of France to make sure there were no issues on that end. It was a formality on all parts, but they still did it and nobody made a fuss over it.

[ahah]

I don't understand the surprise over a monarch having to give permission for members of a royal family to marry. When they get married, it's not merely a marriage - it's also hiring someone new into the family business. Harry had to ask the CEO of the company he worked for if he could add another person to his department.

[royalwave]

Yes. Harry himself noted that when senior working royals marry they become a "household." This, according to him, entitles them to better accommodations, more staff, more cars, etc. Someone needs to approve and fund that.

Speaking of expenses, I have trouble believing Harry's version of events that Charles supposedly said he didn't have the money to support Meghan. I'm sure he expected to help finance Harry and his wife, whomever she may be, but balked at the level of Harry's expectation. Harry writes “Pa might have dreaded the rising cost of maintaining us, but what he really couldn’t stomach was someone new dominating the monarchy, grabbing the limelight, someone shiny and new coming in and overshadowing him."

I think the key words there are "rising cost" and not the silliness about jealousy. Harry and Meghan expected their own court, a much grander house, and apparently the most expensive wardrobe of any royal woman on the continent. I think that is what Charles took issue with and part of why he suggested that she could continue to work and not necessarily be a full-time royal.

What is sort of interesting though is the size of the homes the Queen's children were given. Harry may have had some reason to think he, too, would be gifted something along the lines of a 12-bedroom mansion like Sunninghill Park upon his marriage. But perhaps the days of setting 2nd sons up with grandiose accommodations is over? Prince Edward arguably has the most impressive spread at Bagshot. Anne also has a pretty big spread at Gatcombe Park, but we've seen inside the house and it looks cozy, lived-in, and modest. Anne re-wears clothing that she has owned for decades. Can you picture Meghan doing the same?

I don't know. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Harry had still been a working royal when Charles became King. He may have eventually gotten the larger home he desired, and I do get how it would seem strange to have all your aunts and uncles living in mansions while you're in a relatively small house despite now being significantly closer to the throne, but I'm pretty sure if he had been willing to play the long game some of this would have worked itself out.