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Post by Atreides on Mar 24, 2016 18:56:16 GMT -4
All I need is the promise of the re-enactment of Nancy's "why meeeeeee?!?!?!?!?" scene after she got whacked and I will there on opening day. With bells on!
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Carolina
Sloane Ranger
Posts: 2,358
Mar 19, 2005 3:03:24 GMT -4
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Post by Carolina on Mar 24, 2016 19:50:05 GMT -4
While Nancy was definitely the better skater overall, I always loved Tonya's spins. When she was on her game, I enjoyed watching her more than Nancy.
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Post by kostgard on Mar 25, 2016 1:07:25 GMT -4
Did anyone watch ESPN's 30 for 30 documentary on the Kerrigan-Harding saga? I think it's on Youtube if you're interested. I thought the narrative was more pro-Tonya than she deserved, but even so, she *still* came across as a toxic asshole who hasn't learned anything 20 years later. Nancy Kerrigan, I don't know if I'm her biggest fan, but her only real crime seems to be not living up to the good-girl princess image she put forward. Annoying, sure, but not on the level of physically attacking another competitor. I do think it's completely badass that, at the first practice post-attack when they had to share the ice, Nancy pointedly wore the dress she'd been wearing when she was attacked. A pretty delicious, and well-justified, F-you to Tonya. I remember watching that. I think the director did say that she felt Nancy's side had been told, so this was more Tonya's story. But yeah, she still comes off as kind of an asshole. And also like maybe she's got a touch of The Crazy or she fried her brain a bit with meth or something. ETA: the 30 For 30 episode is on Netflix, so I watched it. Yikes. Tonya is still super-bitter and completely delusional about the whole thing. Also, so clearly lying about so much. My favorite bit is when they found a note with info on Nancy's practice schedule and analyzed the handwriting - Tonya interviews "They analyzed the handwriting and it wasn't mine, so..." Cut directly to the DA who worked on the case saying "We had the handwriting analyzed and it was a match to Tonya's." Then she goes from saying that she didn't skate her best at the Olympics because of all the scrutiny and pressure she was under, and a medal just wasn't in the cards to ranting that they only let her go to the Olympics (and waited until the Olympics were over to kick her out of the USFSA) because they knew she wouldn't get the marks she deserved and would be prevented from getting a medal. If there was any conspiracy on that part, it would have been CBS asking to let her skate because they were salivating over the ratings. Then Tonya's bitching that she apologized to Nancy at the Olympics because "the people around [her]" did that to her, but Nancy blew her off. How rude! Girl, please - at that point, you had admitted that you helped cover up a plot your husband cooked up to harm her. Nancy didn't owe you shit, let alone a hug and forgiveness. She obviously had a shitty beginning in life - born into poverty and abuse. She had a way out, but she either couldn't or wouldn't jump through the necessary hoops to get out. But it was all someone else's fault. To this day, she's still blaming everyone else. Margot Robbie is going to have a lot to chew on. |
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Post by Mutagen on Mar 25, 2016 7:26:49 GMT -4
Then Tonya's bitching that she apologized to Nancy at the Olympics because "the people around [her]" did that to her, but Nancy blew her off. How rude! Girl, please - at that point, you had admitted that you helped cover up a plot your husband cooked up to harm her. Nancy didn't owe you shit, let alone a hug and forgiveness. She obviously had a shitty beginning in life - born into poverty and abuse. She had a way out, but she either couldn't or wouldn't jump through the necessary hoops to get out. But it was all someone else's fault. To this day, she's still blaming everyone else. Margot Robbie is going to have a lot to chew on. Yes! It was kind of amazing how Tonya could bitch all day about how she was unfairly denied success by the skating authorities, yet acted like it was this shockingly heinous thing that Nancy wouldn't immediately forgive her for an attack that... uh... was intended to unfairly deny her success at the Olympics. Absolutely no self-awareness or insight or basic ability to empathize. You could argue that, at the time of the attack, Tonya was relatively young and had learned toxic coping skills from her home life. On some level, I came away from the ESPN documentary thinking her ruin was sort of inevitable given her circumstances. That's no defense of her actions, of course, but if Tonya's perspective now was that she understood she fucked up and accepted her life ban, that would at least show she'd learned something. Instead she's still clinging to the whole, "I'm the real victim here, shut up Nancy" perspective. It's like OK, you were dealt a crappy hand in life, but at this point you've chosen to double down on being an asshole. |
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Post by Ginger on Mar 25, 2016 9:04:42 GMT -4
The story that sums Tonya up for me is from one of the 2014 documentaries. Back when she was competing, the judges talked to Tonya privately and tried to give her helpful advice (as they do with all skaters) and told her she was getting low artistic marks because of her program music (ZZ Top) and because the hot pink leotard she was wearing was not good.
Smart skaters like Kristi Yamaguchi would heed this sort of advice and change things up; Tonya saw it as evidence that the judges were out to get her. And she had made the hot pink leotard herself because she couldn't afford to have one made for her so she was extra defensive about that.
So what did Tonya do? She cussed out the judge and threatened to knock her out.
Now, I feel bad for the 19-year-old girl who grew up in a trailer with a mother who did nothing but yell, criticize and beat her up. I can see why she not only had no cultivated taste, but also why she had an inability to deal appropriately with skating authorities (who were not out to get her, despite what she thought).
But again, in 25 years, she has gained no wisdom or perspective whatsoever. 2016 Tonya would still love to knock that judge out if she had the chance.
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Post by discoprincess on Mar 25, 2016 14:42:57 GMT -4
Anne Hathaway as Nancy Kerrigan perhaps? Anne's got the toothy grin and the "surly behind the pageant veneer" attitude. Yes! I don't know when production is scheduled to begin as Anne Hathaway is currently pregnant. I think it's on Youtube if you're interested. I thought the narrative was more pro-Tonya than she deserved, but even so, she *still* came across as a toxic asshole who hasn't learned anything 20 years later. That's too bad. I liked Tonya on The Smoking Gun Presents series; she seemed to have had a sense of humor about herself (and things). |
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Post by kostgard on Mar 25, 2016 16:38:53 GMT -4
The story that sums Tonya up for me is from one of the 2014 documentaries. Back when she was competing, the judges talked to Tonya privately and tried to give her helpful advice (as they do with all skaters) and told her she was getting low artistic marks because of her program music (ZZ Top) and because the hot pink leotard she was wearing was not good. Smart skaters like Kristi Yamaguchi would heed this sort of advice and change things up; Tonya saw it as evidence that the judges were out to get her. And she had made the hot pink leotard herself because she couldn't afford to have one made for her so she was extra defensive about that. So what did Tonya do? She cussed out the judge and threatened to knock her out. Now, I feel bad for the 19-year-old girl who grew up in a trailer with a mother who did nothing but yell, criticize and beat her up. I can see why she not only had no cultivated taste, but also why she had an inability to deal appropriately with skating authorities (who were not out to get her, despite what she thought). But again, in 25 years, she has gained no wisdom or perspective whatsoever. 2016 Tonya would still love to knock that judge out if she had the chance. She talked about that in the 30 for 30 doc (though only about the pink outfit, not the music). But as Tonya told the story, the judge nastily told her that if she ever wore anything that hideous again she would be banned from competition. I kinda doubt it played out that way. The judge may have been a bit snooty, but I doubt she said it that way, especially since Tonya's coach was apparently standing right there when it happened. As they often say about the queens on RuPaul's Drag Race, the taste level was an issue. That pink outfit was truly fugly. I think it may have been better in a different color, like dark blue or something, but Tonya probably never would have picked a decent color. During her telling of the story, she said part of her tell-off was saying to the judge that until someone coughs up $5000 for a Vera Wang, she's going to wear whatever she wants. Clearly a sign that Tonya was butthurt that Nancy was getting designer dresses (for free) from big name designers. Which, I can see the unfairness, but not every skater was getting designer outfits, and they still looked okay on the ice. Her coach tried to help her with the taste level problem - trying to steer her away from the blue eyeshadow and the long red nails (which she was still rocking in the documentary) - but Tonya didn't listen to her. The doc had one clip of a shopping trip she went on with her coach, and Tonya is coming out of the dressing room in a totally cute LBD while her coach is saying "I know you don't want to hear this, but it looks good!" and Tonya makes a "yuck!" face. It may feel unfair, but advertisers want a certain look in the people they choose to promote their products. And "girl who just rolled out of the pool hall" is not going to get a contract with Reebok and Revlon. If she tried, and listened to the advice given her, I bet she could have done it. Maybe not Revlon, but something. She could have been the scappy underdog - America loves an underdog. If she had tightened it up a bit, she could have landed something. There is something to be said for being all, "I'm not going to conform to your idea of the 'ideal' skater. I'm a damn great skater and I'm gonna do it my way." But you can't give the establishment the finger and then turn around and whine that they didn't hand you all the medals and all the endorsements. When you blaze your own trail, you gotta realize that you may walk out of there with only your dignity to show for it. Sometimes you can break the mold and still make it to the top, but you have to have the greatness and the charm to pull it off. Tonya was never consistently great and she acted entitled and whiny. And to this day, she's still entitled and whiny. If during the doc she had said something like "I was young and stupid and scared. I thought if I turned Jeff in he would beat me" or even "I worked my whole life to get to the Olympics and I was afraid that if I came forward they would kick me off the team" that would have been something. But none of that. She never even really cops to the part she already confessed to (helping covering it up) - when she talked about it, it was more all "Well, the cops and lawyers were all there and blah, blah, blah, what was I supposed to do?" Like, coming clean about her part in the mess was just something she was forced to do because she was just another victim in all this being forced to do something, not because she did something wrong and needed to come clean. She still denied helping plan it (and I totally believe that she did), but she never really acknowledged her role in the aftermath. I did a Google search to see if I could find the fugly pink outfit, but while that one couldn't be found, there was plenty of fug out there. The wardrobe for this movie is going to be insane. And Anne is a good choice for Nancy. I think she could capture all facets of her. |
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Post by Ginger on Mar 25, 2016 18:55:52 GMT -4
I believe Tonya saying the judges threatened her as much as I believe Tonya saying the FBI's handwriting analysis proved the handwriting wasn't hers.
Skating-wise, things all came together for Tonya in 1991 when she won Nationals (and beat Nancy Kerrigan). She was in good shape, she landed her triple axel, and she was skating to one of the most ridiculous music medleys in figure skating history - the Batman soundtrack, Send in the Clowns and Wild Thing. And it's the Wild Thing part of the routine that actually worked because Tonya really connected to it and had fun with it and the crowd loved it.
I don't think it would be impossible to skate to ZZ Top with some artistic merit, but you would really need to do it right and sell it properly. Tonya had no artistic instincts, and you could actually see when she skated to Wild Thing that she doesn't really have any rhythm or musicality at all, so it was a bit of a fluke that it came together for her.
Another thing that sticks with me is when somebody back in the 90s asked Jeff Gillooly whether it bothered him that he went to prison while Tonya got away with it. He said he was better off because he came clean, served his time, and was going to move on with his life, but Tonya was going to be trapped in her lies for the rest of her life. Wise words from Gillooly.
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Post by kostgard on Mar 25, 2016 19:14:11 GMT -4
Another thing that sticks with me is when somebody back in the 90s asked Jeff Gillooly whether it bothered him that he went to prison while Tonya got away with it. He said he was better off because he came clean, served his time, and was going to move on with his life, but Tonya was going to be trapped in her lies for the rest of her life. Wise words from Gillooly. Yeah - someone tracked down Gillooly/Stone in 2014 and did an interview with him. While he takes the lion's share of the blame for what happened, he also maintained that Tonya knew about it before hand: |
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Post by Ginger on Mar 25, 2016 19:34:01 GMT -4
Tonya dropped out of a small, regional competition in the fall of 1993 and claimed her "security" (i.e., that bodyguard she now claims she had nothing to do with until after the attack) had been informed of a threat against her by a stalker. The purpose of this was to set the stage for Nancy's attack and make it look like she was a potential victim of this supposed stalker who was targeting female figure skaters. There's absolutely no question in my mind that she was in on the plan from the beginning.
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