Ricky Gervais

[cremetangerine82]

May 26, 2022 11:11:20 GMT -4 canuckcutie said:

Honestly so many States are currently trying to legislate trans people out of existence that comedians constantly punching down not only feels lazy but also cruel.

Exactly, that’s the primary problem along with the secondary problem that the “jokes“ or neither funny nor original.

Here’s a writer’s take after watching the Netflix special.

[ahah]

If people laugh, I think we have to concede it's funny. Funny is not the same for everyone, so it's perfectly understandable if someone does not laugh and declares it not funny personally. But I think the push for more sensitive comedy would get more traction if it dropped the notion that a few can declare what is unfunny for all. Nothing is going to make it into a pre-recorded comedy special that does not generate laughs, and you're not going to persuade many people if you start out by telling them you'll decide for them what is funny.

[prisma]

Sure, what everybody considers funny is different. I have relatives who still find plenty of outrageously racist, sexist, and xenophobic stuff funny. They are free to find that stuff funny; I can't tell them not to. But I think part of what is getting lost in the discussion here and in the Dave Chappelle thread is that Netflix is paying these men ridiculous sums of money for comedy that is beginning to be defined by punching down. (I know Dave Chappelle hasn't always punched down; now that he's being criticized for it he's doubling down. I don't know about Ricky Gervais.) So just like Netflix is free to give their money to whichever comics they want to promote, I'm free to take my money elsewhere. I subscribe to more streaming services than I can justify based on the time I have to watch--I need to cut back. And as soon as I finish Ozark, I'm cancelling Netflix. This latest brouhaha over Dave Chapelle followed immediately by Ricky Gervais helped me clarify which one I should cancel. And Netflix can continue to give outrageous sums of money to whomever they choose to promote. But my $12 a month won't be a tiny sliver of it. I'm not canceling anyone; I'm just expressing my preferences with where I allocate my money.

[ahah]

May 26, 2022 16:24:25 GMT -4 prisma said:

Sure, what everybody considers funny is different. I have relatives who still find plenty of outrageously racist, sexist, and xenophobic stuff funny. They are free to find that stuff funny; I can't tell them not to. But I think part of what is getting lost in the discussion here and in the Dave Chappelle thread is that Netflix is paying these men ridiculous sums of money for comedy that is beginning to be defined by punching down. (I know Dave Chappelle hasn't always punched down; now that he's being criticized for it he's doubling down. I don't know about Ricky Gervais.) So just like Netflix is free to give their money to whichever comics they want to promote, I'm free to take my money elsewhere. I subscribe to more streaming services than I can justify based on the time I have to watch--I need to cut back. And as soon as I finish Ozark, I'm cancelling Netflix. This latest brouhaha over Dave Chapelle followed immediately by Ricky Gervais helped me clarify which one I should cancel. And Netflix can continue to give outrageous sums of money to whomever they choose to promote. But my $12 a month won't be a tiny sliver of it. I'm not canceling anyone; I'm just expressing my preferences with where I allocate my money.

That's the problem with a lot of protests - you're not willing to sacrifice Ozark to take a stand, and Netflix knows it.

[cremetangerine82]

May 26, 2022 16:24:25 GMT -4 prisma said:

Sure, what everybody considers funny is different. I have relatives who still find plenty of outrageously racist, sexist, and xenophobic stuff funny. They are free to find that stuff funny; I can't tell them not to. But I think part of what is getting lost in the discussion here and in the Dave Chappelle thread is that Netflix is paying these men ridiculous sums of money for comedy that is beginning to be defined by punching down. (I know Dave Chappelle hasn't always punched down; now that he's being criticized for it he's doubling down. I don't know about Ricky Gervais.) So just like Netflix is free to give their money to whichever comics they want to promote, I'm free to take my money elsewhere. I subscribe to more streaming services than I can justify based on the time I have to watch--I need to cut back. And as soon as I finish Ozark, I'm cancelling Netflix. This latest brouhaha over Dave Chapelle followed immediately by Ricky Gervais helped me clarify which one I should cancel. And Netflix can continue to give outrageous sums of money to whomever they choose to promote. But my $12 a month won't be a tiny sliver of it. I'm not canceling anyone; I'm just expressing my preferences with where I allocate my money.

I mentioned in the Dave Chapelle thread that a Netflix employee leaked that he was paid $24.1 million for his special. Netflix terminated that employee’s employment. It’s frustrating that you can find certain things funny even they’re offensive, but what is even more offensive is these men (I assume Netflix paid Gervais quite a bit) are making money hurting an already hurting community. When this is an actual news item, you could understand why the LBGTQ+ communities and their allies are beyond frustrated at this point. Speaking of humor, I mentioned that both Ricky and Dave’s trans “jokes” were neither funny nor original!

[Mutagen]

May 26, 2022 15:09:50 GMT -4 ahah said:

If people laugh, I think we have to concede it's funny. Funny is not the same for everyone, so it's perfectly understandable if someone does not laugh and declares it not funny personally. But I think the push for more sensitive comedy would get more traction if it dropped the notion that a few can declare what is unfunny for all. Nothing is going to make it into a pre-recorded comedy special that does not generate laughs, and you're not going to persuade many people if you start out by telling them you'll decide for them what is funny.

People have been declaring comedians "not funny" since the beginning of comedy. We all know male comedians have never held back from declaring that female comedians, as a group, just aren't funny. Some people hate prop comedy. Dane Cook is pretty much the go-to example of a hack comedian. Dave Chappelle didn't hesitate to declare Hannah Gadsby not funny.

Why should Ricky Gervais suddenly be a sacred cow in this regard?

[ahah]

May 26, 2022 17:35:26 GMT -4 Mutagen said:

May 26, 2022 15:09:50 GMT -4 ahah said:

If people laugh, I think we have to concede it's funny. Funny is not the same for everyone, so it's perfectly understandable if someone does not laugh and declares it not funny personally. But I think the push for more sensitive comedy would get more traction if it dropped the notion that a few can declare what is unfunny for all. Nothing is going to make it into a pre-recorded comedy special that does not generate laughs, and you're not going to persuade many people if you start out by telling them you'll decide for them what is funny.

People have been declaring comedians "not funny" since the beginning of comedy. We all know male comedians have never held back from declaring that female comedians, as a group, just aren't funny. Some people hate prop comedy. Dane Cook is pretty much the go-to example of a hack comedian. Dave Chappelle didn't hesitate to declare Hannah Gadsby not funny.

Why should Ricky Gervais suddenly be a sacred cow in this regard?

I have no problem with people calling something not funny when it doesn't make them laugh, as I already said. What I object to is this movement of a group of people deciding that the subject matter of a comedian is not acceptable, and declaring that the correct approach to that is to declare them not funny objecting to the platforms that person has earned. If you think it's not funny, turn it off. Accept that other people get to make that decision for themselves. If you believe that what is being done is harmful, there are more persuasive ways to show that. Rather than declaring it not funny (which again, is easily dismissed by the people in the audience laughing) explain to people what damage is done and work to convince them it's not worth it.

Ricky Gervais is not a sacred cow. In my book, comedy is a sacred cow. It can be a fantastic avenue for communicating and I don't like the actions attempting to stop it. Please note I said here "attempting to". I"m not claiming it's succeeded, so pointing out that specials ae still on streaming platforms, or that harassers still get Grammy's is irrelevant. Because truly if all of this movement of outrage is NOT intent on making them go away, it's a poorly communicated message with an unclear goal. Hey, maybe comedy would be a more effective way to communicate it!

[Ginger]

It is a little lame that every article written from an activist standpoint about whatever comedian controversy is au courant, always ends with an indignant, "And worst of all, it just wasn't funny!" Every time. That makes me chuckle.

Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

Netflix employee leaked that he was paid $24.1 million for his special. Netflix terminated that employee’s employment.

Of course the employee was terminated, and there is nothing unjust about that. No company in the world would continue to employ someone they know has leaked confidential and potentially damaging company information to the media. It's a little silly because it's been widely reported for many years that Chappelle's deal with Netflix was $60 million for three specials, so it wasn't exactly a bombshell. (All of the employees Netflix terminated over the Chappelle situation were fired due to code of conduct violations, such as storming into closed-door meetings they were not permitted to be in, not for walkouts, protests, or social media activity.)

Everybody has known for years that Netflix wildly overpays for their content, and that they wouldn't be able to outrun the consequences forever. Chappelle and Gervais are the tip of the iceberg. Ellen Degeneres got somewhere between $20-$25 million for her one extremely forgettable special.

[cremetangerine82]

May 26, 2022 20:03:08 GMT -4 Ginger said:

It is a little lame that every article written from an activist standpoint about whatever comedian controversy is au courant, always ends with an indignant, "And worst of all, it just wasn't funny!" Every time. That makes me chuckle.

Nov 29, 2021 1:38:37 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

Netflix employee leaked that he was paid $24.1 million for his special. Netflix terminated that employee’s employment.

Of course the employee was terminated, and there is nothing unjust about that. No company in the world would continue to employ someone they know has leaked confidential and potentially damaging company information to the media. It's a little silly because it's been widely reported for many years that Chappelle's deal with Netflix was $60 million for three specials, so it wasn't exactly a bombshell. (All of the employees Netflix terminated over the Chappelle situation were fired due to code of conduct violations, such as storming into closed-door meetings they were not permitted to be in, not for walkouts, protests, or social media activity.)

Everybody has known for years that Netflix wildly overpays for their content, and that they wouldn't be able to outrun the consequences forever. Chappelle and Gervais are the tip of the iceberg. Ellen Degeneres got somewhere between $20-$25 million for her one extremely forgettable special.

I know the context and that’s why I didn’t comment on the termination, I’m just reporting what happened.

ETA: Netflix...

[batmom]

I'm not even sure that I want to wade into this but I'm going to. On the topic of 'not funny' - some people will always find trans jokes funny because they hate trans people. Others might find them funny because they haven't given that community a lot of thought beyond "that's weird and it makes me uncomfortable." I'm not going to tell either group what they can or can't find funny. I won't tell anyone what they can and can't find funny. But to that second group I'd ask that they re-examine their thoughts about trans people and why I (and so many here) find those kinds of jokes unfunny. In doing so, they might also change their response to the joke.

A lot of people have stopped using phrases and jokes once they understood the hurt that it caused others, and sometimes it took developing empathy for those others before it happened (see: gay jokes). The same is true for trans jokes.