Big Little Lies

[prisma]

I was toying with spoilering myself this morning (I really do have no self control, but I managed to not wander into spoiler threads), I came across this New Yorker article (safe, no spoilers): THE SURPRISING GENEROSITY OF “BIG LITTLE LIES”. It does a nice job of examining the nuanced way the show deals with domestic violence.

[suekel]

The link just leads back to your post here so I haven't read the New Yorker article yet, however I was coming here to say that I think the show, writers and actors have done an outstanding job with the DV storyline. Perry is not 100% villain, which abusers rarely are, and Celeste is not 100% cowering victim. There is so much nuance and realism in this portrayal. You get to see the charming side of Perry which is no doubt how he first presented when he and Celeste were dating. No abuser starts smacking a woman around on the first date. It's the slow con of a narcissist, who is very careful to dole the controlling behavior out in small enough doses, and surrounded by enough love bombing, that the victim literally finds themselves married with kids and being choked and wondering how the hell they ended up here. Askars simply walks on screen and I find myself tensing, but the show does such a good job of *not* having him being awful every single appearance, so we find ourselves on edge as much as the Celeste character, not knowing what to expect.

I was reading on PreviouslyTV, and many of the posters there are so pissed about Madeline cheating, but I think it's another case of the show getting a depth and realism just right. She was basically abandoned by Nathan when their daughter was young, and she chose the steady, stable guy as her next husband, ignoring the fact that she didn't really have a lot of passion for him. He was the safe choice, but now some years on she is tempted by theater dude and the hot sex he represents. I think she does love Ed and is trying to do the right thing, even though she has obviously failed in the past. I'm not excusing the cheating, I just understand it in this context.

[Ginger]

I found their joint therapy visit interesting. On the one hand, Perry rather surprisingly admitted that their fights are "physical" although I think they portrayed it as *both* of them getting physical, which is technically true. (Celeste slapped Perry first during one of their fights.)

But then he got manipulative when he whined that Celeste had told him she didn't love him. (Actually, what she said post-choking was that she would leave him if he touched her that way again. It wasn't an out-of-the-blue "I don't love you, loser.")

And then in Celeste's solo therapy visit, she appeared to be trying to drop hints to the therapist about his other controlling & abusive behavior. I was dying for the therapist to ask her why she was wearing that scarf.

[prisma]

Mar 14, 2017 11:43:39 GMT -4 suekel said:

The link just leads back to your post here so I haven't read the New Yorker article yet, however I was coming here to say that I think the show, writers and actors have done an outstanding job with the DV storyline. Perry is not 100% villain, which abusers rarely are, and Celeste is not 100% cowering victim. There is so much nuance and realism in this portrayal. You get to see the charming side of Perry which is no doubt how he first presented when he and Celeste were dating. No abuser starts smacking a woman around on the first date. It's the slow con of a narcissist, who is very careful to dole the controlling behavior out in small enough doses, and surrounded by enough love bombing, that the victim literally finds themselves married with kids and being choked and wondering how the hell they ended up here. Askars simply walks on screen and I find myself tensing, but the show does such a good job of *not* having him being awful every single appearance, so we find ourselves on edge as much as the Celeste character, not knowing what to expect.

I was reading on PreviouslyTV, and many of the posters there are so pissed about Madeline cheating, but I think it's another case of the show getting a depth and realism just right. She was basically abandoned by Nathan when their daughter was young, and she chose the steady, stable guy as her next husband, ignoring the fact that she didn't really have a lot of passion for him. He was the safe choice, but now some years on she is tempted by theater dude and the hot sex he represents. I think she does love Ed and is trying to do the right thing, even though she has obviously failed in the past. I'm not excusing the cheating, I just understand it in this context.

Sorry I botched the link--I fixed it but here it is again.

I also enjoyed reading Tom and Lorenzo's take on the series up to now. (They're the reason I started watching it to begin with.) I like their observation about Jane:

The story seems to be heading in a very clear direction with regards to Jane and the way she’s processing her rape. The subtext has become text as we see her fantasies of revenge play out over and over again, like an obsession she can’t control. The motif of her running on the beach gets more powerful with each use of it.

This is sort of OT, but watching Jane deal with the PTSD of being raped while raising the child of the rape makes me furious at all the (mostly male) anti-abortion crusaders out there who want to take away a woman's choice to end a pregnancy resulting from rape. It's so heart breaking to watch Jane simultaneously express love for her child while still reliving the trauma of the rape. Abortion isn't the best answer for every victim, but I can't imagine eliminating that option.

[suekel]

Thanks prisma, those were both great articles!

[Atreides]

Shit, I just remembered that Nicole Kidman was thisclose to marrying Lenny Kravitz, so she could have been Zoe's Kravitz' real life stepmother!

I got into this series a bit late but I am all caught up now and am ALL IN. Rich white women be crazy! Reese Witherspoon is phenomenal as Madeline and deserves that Emmy, although I imagine she'll be in the same category as heavyweights Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon in Feud.

Nicole is awesome too. She really does well at playing sad, damaged women. Laura Dern is kind of a hoot as Renata. I would not want to cross her or Madeline in real life. Shailene Woodley and Zoe Kravitz I could take or leave.

The men are mostly assholes. I wish Adam Scott wouldn't have such a heavy beard though. He does that for a lot of roles and he looks awful.

Vulture has this hilarious ranking of the women of the show: Who's the Saddest White Lady on Big Little Lies?. They also have this article on the real-life locations and value of those amazing houses they live in. Celeste's house is the only one actually in the Monterey area and Madeline's house is the most valuable, although she is only "middle class rich" on the show. I recognize Renata's house as Nolan's house in Season 1 of Revenge

[laurenj]

Nicole is awesome too. She really does well at playing sad, damaged women. Laura Dern is kind of a hoot as Renata. I would not want to cross her or Madeline in real life. Shailene Woodley and Zoe Kravitz I could take or leave.

I honest to God had vicarious anxiety when Renata burst in on Jane's meeting with the principal in last night's episode. She's all perfectly done up and raging with her husband behind her and poor Jane is standing there alone in her sweatshirt. You just know how that would go down in real life.

I'm not sure how I feel about this last episode from a story perspective. It was interesting to watch and yet it didn't feel like much moved forward. And now I'm wondering if I just don't remember giant chunks of the books or if a lot has been added. Could be a mix of both, I read it awhile ago.

[scarlet]

Mar 20, 2017 10:36:53 GMT -4 laurenj said:

And now I'm wondering if I just don't remember giant chunks of the books or if a lot has been added. Could be a mix of both, I read it awhile ago.

A lot has been added.

[Ladybug]

It felt like a big chunk of the episode was taken up by Celeste and her session with the therapist. I find it hard to believe that as close as Celeste is with her, Maddie doesn't seem to suspect serious abuse going on with her friend. Never noticed any bruises? She's ready to take a road trip to help Jane confront her rapist but seems to have no clue her friend is getting beaten up by her husband.

Renata freaking out and screaming in front of her kid is probably not the best parenting choice. Do you get the sense that Renata feels like she is the one getting bullied? There seems to be a lot of projection there.

What is up with the coffee shop guy? They spend a lot of time with him but he hasn't actually done much yet. Does he figure into the story later?

[Ginger]

Yeah, there is an interruption in every episode for the coffee shop guy. I keep waiting for something to come of that.

Perry's done a good job of keeping his abuse limited to bruises Celeste can cover up. It's very creepy how new bruises keep appearing on the character and they haven't even been explained by specific abuse incidents portrayed on the show.

For as much time as Celeste spends with Maddie, you don't see her opening up about anything with her. She's very reserved and the only thing she reveals about her family life is vague bragging about how great her sex life with Perry is.

I found it interesting that Ed said, "Perry Wright is letting Celeste go to St. Luis Obispo with you?" There's obviously some controlling dynamic there that their friends have noticed, but they probably think it is protective and loving. I have a feeling Perry - who always puts on a big show of how affectionate he is when friends are over - made sure to let their friends know how well he took care of Celeste when she "cracked up" years back over their fertility struggles.