Hollywood Behaving Badly: Assault, Abuse and Other Crimes

[technicolor]

There's a reason why #allyourfavesareproblematic is a thing. I cringe every time I see someone declare that they're glad they're a fan of so and so because they would never etc. You're basically starting a countdown for the call-out LOL. And we don't know these people, who the heck knows how any of them are in private.

Also, getting successful in the industry practically requires you to be ruthless and cutthroat, 99 percent never make it. It's not only talent that pushes the one percent who make it over the edge. I'm not saying it's all the same and that everything is equally bad. When I'm getting into someone's work I basically always google their controversies, there's usually something bad, even for supposed squeaky clean ones. Often especially those, because they have a whole team dedicated to clean-up. (Taylor Swift stalked that Kennedy kid, IMO never put enough distance to those White Supremacy stans and is an eco terrorist, Beyonce takes millions to play in Dubai and seems to run sweat shops, Gaga abused that assistant and the whole R. Kelly mess etc., etc.). And then everyone has to decide for themselves to what point they can separate art from artist. IMO everyone does this and has to do this to consume any entertainment at all, and people thinking that they don't do this basically only have blind spots for their faves.

[Auroranorth]

I found a singer whose music I really liked a while back and innocently googled his name. WHAM! Dude did time for attempting to force an abortion on his then-girlfriend. Both she and the baby survived, but wow. That was pretty much when I gave up stanning anyone but Dolly Parton (I beg you, don't tell me of any scandals.)

[cremetangerine82]

Aug 8, 2023 20:16:14 GMT -4 Auroranorth said:

I found a singer whose music I really liked a while back and innocently googled his name. WHAM! Dude did time for attempting to force an abortion on his then-girlfriend. Both she and the baby survived, but wow. That was pretty much when I gave up stanning anyone but Dolly Parton (I beg you, don't tell me of any scandals.)

Whoa! Who was the celebrity? Did he "perform" the abortion?

Great points, technicolor. I hate how a celebrity get a "pass" just because of their notable cultural importance or posthumous sanctification. After R. Kelly's federal convictions, another Twitter user did a "whataboutism" about Elvis Presley when I criticized Michael Jackson for his (at BEST) pathological relationships with children. I quickly countered that Presley was a grown-ass man who groomed a 14-year-old child to be his "pure" bride. That poster didn't respond, probably expecting me to defend "The King".

[technicolor]

I just think it's easier to own up to your own limits when it comes to how much you'll tolerate in media consumption. Because we all tolerate it to some degree IMO. Like, I found the discourse regarding Tina Turner also frustrating. There's an argument to be made that she was often too much reduced to being a victim of abuse, she herself expressed frustration on this. But the honest truth beyond that? Ike turner was shunned because he became less profitable than Tina and she became more famous than him. No one is rushing to erase Marvin Gaye, or James Brown or Miles Davis, or, or, or. Or how it's fashionable now to dump on John Lennon, but no one cares that Ringo Starr beat and almost killed his wife? Allegedly. Because Lennon is the important Beatle, the one who is threatening to some other faves etc.

I said my piece on how frustrating I find the rewriting of history regarding O'Connor and various other celebs who died too young or under tragic circumstances. There's no need to cancel and it won't be accomplished with important cultural figures anyway. But just talking about the problematic context of it all should be possible. But often it's either blind spots for faves or some form of imperative that only "pure, virtuous art from pure, virtuous people" be consumed. Which is not possible. Even the ones arguing for such a thing are not doing it. They're just pretending that their faves are exempt.

Which is where some of that whataboutism comes from, I think. In discussions like these barely anyone presents a good faith take, it's often about scoring points and shaming others. So it inevitably devolves into "Wait a minute! You want me to stop watching this, but you yourself are watching that!!! Hypocrite!"

Basically I'm old and grumpy at internet culture LOL.

[cremetangerine82]

I completely understand the frustration about posthumous reduction of a complex human being (Tina Turner as a domestic abuse survivor) or simplification of a complex human being (Sinéad O'Connor's protest on the Roman Catholic Church's child abuse). For the aforementioned two, I hope I was able to balance my admiration of that part of their legacies with the rest of their lives (may they rest in peace). I acknowledge that Tina was a brilliant artist who shouldn't have that legacy overshadowed by Ike and Sinéad had deep personal issues that muddled the impact of her protest. However, it would be dishonest to understate their brave spirits that helped then through difficult times and break the glass ceilings that limit so many female musical artists.

[Ginger]

Nov 22, 2010 9:41:42 GMT -4 technicolor said:

But often it's either blind spots for faves or some form of imperative that only "pure, virtuous art from pure, virtuous people" be consumed. Which is not possible. Even the ones arguing for such a thing are not doing it. They're just pretending that their faves are exempt.

Which is where some of that whataboutism comes from, I think. In discussions like these barely anyone presents a good faith take, it's often about scoring points and shaming others. So it inevitably devolves into "Wait a minute! You want me to stop watching this, but you yourself are watching that!!! Hypocrite!"

Basically I'm old and grumpy at internet culture LOL.

Yeah, me too.

Where I'm at is: if someone is abusing their power, then they should be stopped from doing that. Turning a blind eye to bad behavior and letting celebrities get away with it because they are successful and talented is what needs to stop. If people need to be fired, sued, or incarcerated for harming people, then I hope they are. I think progress has been made there.

But I'm sick of the internet looking for reasons to hate everyone based on any mistake they may have made in their lives. (Well, almost everyone. Certain people have been granted protected status, and they are put on a pedestal and their sins are ignored or obscured.) Nobody is perfect, and I'm not expecting entertainers to be either. I'm under no obligation to stop consuming the output of people the internet has deemed "problematic" or contribute the obligatory "but they suck" conversation whenever someone enjoys something they did.

I've been told I have to hate certain celebrities because of who they follow on instagram or posts they have liked that the internet doesn't agree with. (Apparently, Jennifer Aniston is a horrible person because of her instagram likes and I'm not talking about the recent Jamie Foxx post she went out of her way to announce she had not liked.) That's BS. So is concluding that someone must be an awful person just because they have some sort of friendship with some other supposedly problematic celebrity.

I will never forget an exchange I read on ONTD regarding Phoebe Waller-Bridge:
Question: Wait, why do we hate her again? I forgot.
Answer: Because she's privileged and her grandfather was mentioned in The Panama Papers.

I see no need to search for any dumbass reason to hate people. And when there are legitimate reasons for people to want to personally boycott some celebrity (such as the celebrity taking a vocal public stance on some controversial political issue), that's fine, but I'm under no obligation to join the boycott.

[Auroranorth]

Aug 8, 2023 23:56:46 GMT -4 cremetangerine82 said:

Aug 8, 2023 20:16:14 GMT -4 Auroranorth said:

I found a singer whose music I really liked a while back and innocently googled his name. WHAM! Dude did time for attempting to force an abortion on his then-girlfriend. Both she and the baby survived, but wow. That was pretty much when I gave up stanning anyone but Dolly Parton (I beg you, don't tell me of any scandals.)

Whoa! Who was the celebrity? Did he "perform" the abortion?

Cheb Mami, an Algerian singer. His girlfriend was locked in the house of a friend of his and an abortion was attempted to be forced on her. He blamed his manager, but they both did time, and it was pretty clear that he wanted the baby gone. Also he was arrested for beating an ex-wife, though I don't think he did time for it.

[cremetangerine82]

Wow, that story is so heinous!

Disney, really?

[technicolor]

So, Woody Allen is presenting a film at Venice, it's getting pretty good reviews and he has whined some about cancel culture. Eyeroll. First, he still makes movies, just got a standing ovation at a big festival and strong reviews. So clearly, all that cancelling isn't such a straightforward thing at all anyway. He did see professional consequences tied to the allegations against him, but he's also been able to shore up support for financing etc. anyway. So it's not like there's industry-wide consensus in many of these cases.

And I guess my unpopular opinion on the Farrow vs. Allen case. I believe all the kids. And am kind of uncomfortable that the wider media/public coverage clearly prioritizes the white/"real" children and constantly suggests that Moses and Soon-Yi, the adopted children who have said that Mia's household was dysfunctional and abusive, are lying, are crazy, have been bought off etc. It's the typical victim-blaming that usually gets shamed, but for Moses and Soon-Yi it seems okay to have that dragged in as a suspicion. And I can't help but think that race plays a major role in the different coverage here.

It's not unheard of that some children get singled out for abuse, so I don't see how Ronan, who is much younger than his siblings, would really know or understand the dynamics of the household when they allege Mia was lashing out at them. And predators are known to focus on the vulnerable with a bad homelife, so it's totally plausible that Woody was able to gain the trust of both Moses and Soon-Yi because they were miserable and perhaps even abused. So yeah, that part of the conversation has always made me cringe tbh. The way Moses and Soon-Yi are talked and reported about.

[chiqui]

Founder of influential J-Pop music agency, who developed the business model for Asian youth pop music, accused of sexually abusing hundreds of his clients.