Taylor Swift

[technicolor]

This album is a mess. And I like some of it, but it's clear at this point that she has no one anymore to tell her no. This thing needed an editor. Badly. It will sell like crazy and break all records anyway, which is part of the problem because she doesn't have motivation anymore to perhaps look more critically at her own output.

That said, I do think it's interesting that some media are coming out and are starting to criticize the album and the way she's frankly being swallowed in her songwriting by her own branding and metanarrative as well. I've seen NYT, WaPo, NME, Atlantic, and various smaller music sites be critical. And I don't think it helps that she has a dedicated deathcult army who will go after reviewers and harrass, doxx and threaten them. Everyone will think long and hard before writing anything critical about her, which also reaffirms the strange isolated position she's in.

She's become more brand than artist and to some degree that album is a (fruitless?) struggle against that. How she's at this point also pissed and intimidated by her intrusive stans, how her relationships tank because her fame is so insane that it overwhelms everything. And yeah, releasing a nervous breakdown double album mostly about Matty Healy is...a choice. Apparently they've been circling each other for years and then it all predictably burned down. And I know this because there's no way to listen to her anymore without also consuming some of the lore around her. A trap of her own making, but still. Agree that he's the kind of dude who will feel flattered by all that hyperfixation on him and is also messy enough to respond in song.

Something the critical reviews have been saying and I agree with: She's very talented, but the world she describes is very small and that's not only because of how sheltered her money and fame makes her. There's a thread of black/white thinking and little empathy for everyone not Taylor Swift that is really limiting her as an artist. As one article put it, yeah, they done you wrong or whatever, but is it really cool to treat Alwyn's depression and Healy's past heroin addiction as annoying impositions to what Taylor wants? Or going after Kim Kardashian and her kids ten years after the fact. As if only Taylor is allowed to have feelings, be hurt, have grievances etc. She's a billionaire who's made her empire by turning her life into a soap opera of songs and blasting everyone who ever did anything she didn't like. At a certain point it will start affecting her as well.

[phillipa]

Washington Post gave the album a scathing review. I've seen other publications pan it as well. It seems overly long, very self indulgent, and mean spirited.

Nov 22, 2010 9:41:42 GMT -4 technicolor said:

As one article put it, yeah, they done you wrong or whatever, but is it really cool to treat Alwyn's depression and Healy's past heroin addiction as annoying impositions to what Taylor wants?

This right here is super important. Framing other people's struggles as blockers to your own happiness is pretty effed up, and it's something she has done consistently throughout her career. It's also something I feel like we increasingly see in the age of social media with a lot of people. Narcissism is confused for empowerment. She never does anything wrong, it's always her partners. But the common factor here is her. If you have never had a successful relationship at age 33, and if man after man disappoints you or "does you wrong," then are they really doing you wrong, or are you doing them wrong and twisting it to be their fault? Relationships take work, patience, and a certain amount of selflessness. That doesn't mean lose sight of your own worth, but it does mean you have to be compassionate. Her entire brand is, it's all about me. The men don't matter. Other women don't matter either. Their kids don't matter. Me, me, me. And my fans should adopt that same attitude as well.

At what point does this stop being empowerment and become solipsism? At what point does she become the abusive partner? I don't know how any man at this point touches her with a ten foot pole. I don't know why any woman would want to be her friend. They have to know what's going to happen. I guess Travis has decided his own ambitions mean the risk is worth it.

[chiqui]

While confirming that Matty Healy is the scuzzball that the everyone in the world except Taylor knew he was last year, there is a part of me - and this might be my age talking - that is very much, “Him? You wrote half an album about him?” He’s the dude that gets maybe, one song. And if you were anyone else but Taylor Swift, you would pretend that he never existed. We all have that guy in our past, I am not even slamming her for rebounding to him. But she’s given him a prominence that he’s the type of dude to get off on. He’s probably the only ex that is actually happy to end up in a song, or songs.

How can she be "over" him when she's still that obsessed with him? I can imagine him very pleased that she is and even milking it for publicity, if he's willing to stoop to that kind of game. If he's a serious artist, I would hope that he doesn't.

That said, I do think it's interesting that some media are coming out and are starting to criticize the album and the way she's frankly being swallowed in her songwriting by her own branding and metanarrative as well. I've seen NYT, WaPo, NME, Atlantic, and various smaller music sites be critical. And I don't think it helps that she has a dedicated deathcult army who will go after reviewers and harrass, doxx and threaten them. Everyone will think long and hard before writing anything critical about her, which also reaffirms the strange isolated position she's in.

She's become more brand than artist and to some degree that album is a (fruitless?) struggle against that. How she's at this point also pissed and intimidated by her intrusive stans, how her relationships tank because her fame is so insane that it overwhelms everything.

This. She's Taylor Swift The Brand now, so any music output of hers are commercial jingles. I wonder if she recognizes this? Or if she just shrugs because it brings in money? Courtney Love said of her recently, "She's not interesting as an artist."

[mshairylegs]

It's not her best album, but it's growing on me. Really like Fortnight/ My Boy Only Breaks his Favourite Toys/ So Long, London. What are Ethan Hawke and Josh Charles doing in the videos for Fortnight? Are they Swifties??

I get the criticism lobbed against her but I still don't mind. She is extraodinarily hardworking (should she have released 31 songs? maybe not, but i bet her hardcore fans probably love it, so good for them). She apparently treats her employees and contractors well and is business savvy AF. Good for her.

It's such a sad album though. And you can certainly say it's because she sees herself as a permavictim, but for me the difference btw these songs and her previous ones about heartbreak is that they are so mournful. The previous ones had some tongue in cheek, more-fish-in-the-sea, I shall overcome, throughline but these songs are just out and out ugly-crying at 3am sad/so hurt/angry/broken.

As for So long, London--I don't know if Alwyn is/was depressed, but it doesn't sound/read to me that she treated it as an annoying imposition. Rather, it seems she's saying that emotionally supporting him was draining, Sisyphean, ultimately found it overwhelming and lost herself a bit. That is not an uncommon consequence for those with partners suffering long-term mental health issues. For me, what she seems really angry about, is ultimately that she didn't feel or see that he loved her or wanted to commit to the same extent. Which may or may not be true--only they know.

(edited to add, that she does take the piss out of herself as well: I Can Do It With a Broken Heart is (very catchy and) about manically working because you've been romantically rejected and you're making a fool of yourself over sb who just doesn't give a damn about you. I mean, for a pretty, self-made billionairess to admit that takes more courage than I have.)

[technicolor]

I think the album's bloated and I'm glad that reviewers are starting to call her out for this, pitchfork dropped a very well-written one. If she wants to evolve as an artist, she needs to get out of her bubble. And I do think she wants that, she wouldn't have released something as unhinged and, agree, at least in parts very raw if that wasn't the case.

And yeah, I do have sympathy for the postion she's in to some degree. She's at a stage where arguably fame itself becomes some form of trauma because it intrudes into everything she does and all her relationships. She's also wielding this power and not always very fairly IMO, but to a certain degree yes she's also imprisoned by it. The lashing out at her fans for basically treating her as a blow-up doll and throwing tantrums if she doesn't perform as they want...I get that to some degree.

Healy is a problematic shithead, but the reaction wasn't only some articles about him being a problematic shithead. Apparently her stans started harrassing and threatening him, his family and his band. Ghosting her because he couldn't deal (as she tells it this is what happened) was a crap and hurtful thing to do, but the basic premise of him thinking he could cope because he has some level of fame himself and then being confronted with the insanity surrounding her...yeah, that must be tough. When a relationship with her becomes "Do I risk ruining my career/life to be with her?" for anyone connected to her, that must be very isolating. The album does resonate on these grounds for me to some degree, the sadness of being stuck in this role and what it does to your life, even though yeah it also gives her unfathomable riches and power.

[carrier76]

My main beef (besides the fact that this album is TOOOOOOOO long) is that so much of it sounds the same. Just plodding boring tempos. Same boring Lana Del Rey-esque style. If I wanted to listen to Lana Del Rey, I would, and I do NOT. I was not a fan of the style of Folklore/Evermore, but it’s like she’s stuck in that style, hung out with Lana too much and was like, “this is the way.” She needs some new collaborators; even Midnights was kind of same-y.

There are some high points - So Long London, My Boy Breaks His Favorite Toys, The Manuscript, The Bolter, the unfortunately titled But Daddy, I Love Him, and Robin, which made me ugly cry while I was chopping vegetables for meatloaf.

I hope that she and Travis are a forever love match because another ponderous breakup album would be intolerable. As my husband once said when I was complaining about his parents: “You don’t need to share EVERY thought you have.”

[Deleted]

That’s where I land on it, she has everything she ever wanted - she’s the most famous artist in the world, a billionaire, wields incredible power not just in the entertainment industry but in general, but man, at what cost? She will never be able to live anywhere close to a normal life. Be careful what you wish for.

I like the album, I think there are some instant classics on there and some that will end up on my faves list. Florida!!! Is a banger.

Ethan Hawke and Josh Charles were in the Dead Poet’s Society.

[ahah]

Apr 22, 2024 9:41:57 GMT -4 @borokat said:

That’s where I land on it, she has everything she ever wanted - she’s the most famous artist in the world, a billionaire, wields incredible power not just in the entertainment industry but in general, but man, at what cost? She will never be able to live anywhere close to a normal life. Be careful what you wish for.

I like the album, I think there are some instant classics on there and some that will end up on my faves list. Florida!!! Is a banger.

Ethan Hawke and Josh Charles were in the Dead Poet’s Society.

I say yes, she can live a normal life. Her level of fame is not that different from Julia Roberts at the peak of her career - the big difference being Julia played characters that were not all about her, while Taylor sells her personal life in her lyrics. But Julia had that level of fame, scrutiny into her love life, men she fell in love with who didn't want to put up with everything that came with her fame, etc. But Julia figured out how to live a pretty normal life by moving away from Hollywood, not working as often, and not seeking the spotlight. I think that Taylor can absolutely have the same thing - but she has to want it. I suspect that right now, the fame and attention matter to her much more. For as long as she goes to restaurants known for paparazzi instead of dining places that protect the privacy of their patrons, goes on vacations where paparazzi can follow her and report on what she's doing, and most importantly writes music that thrives on people trying to read the tea leaves and play detective seeking the details of her love life - she is not going to have privacy and normalcy.

[Deleted]

I don’t think you can compare because social media did not exist during Julia Roberts heyday.

[ahah]

Apr 22, 2024 13:11:11 GMT -4 @borokat said:

I don’t think you can compare because social media did not exist during Julia Roberts heyday.

Fair, that is a key difference. But I don't think the ways that Taylor courts the attention can be ignored. Beyonce is a star at a fairly equivalent level, in the social media era. But she is not known for relying on songs that are all about her personal life, therefore does not invite people to dissect her personal life in order to know the clues to look for in music in the same way Taylor does.