Courtney Love

[pathtaken]

Dec 27, 2013 9:21:07 GMT -4 Neurochick said:

I don't get why Courtney shouldn't be there. Isn't she technically Kurt Cobain's widow? Why should a child go instead of the widow?

Whispers one word while adjusting tinfoil, m u r d e r, then scuttles away to the shadows.

[Mutagen]

Ehhhhh... is there actually any credible evidence for murder theories? No love for her as a person, but she's such a fucking mess I have a hard time believing she could've masterminded a murder and subsequent 20-year coverup without getting caught. 

[Ginger]

Dec 27, 2013 12:07:25 GMT -4 Hamatron said:

As a histrionic addict personality, or whatever she is (narcissist? sociopath?) this woman is going to have a meltdown when this thing happens regardless of where she is. It just depends on whether or not the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame wants it there.

April is going to be Nirvana's hall of fame induction, the 20th anniversary of Kurt's death, and the 20th anniversary of Live Through This. Courtney may also puke up a new album and autobiography in time to capitalize on all the publicity. It's going to a perfect shitstorm with Courtney at the center of it.

Dec 27, 2013 12:35:05 GMT -4 Mutagen said:

Ehhhhh... is there actually any credible evidence for murder theories? No love for her as a person, but she's such a fucking mess I have a hard time believing she could've masterminded a murder and subsequent 20-year coverup without getting caught. 

I've toyed with some of those murder theories...Courtney did a lot of things in the days and weeks leading up to Kurt's death that were callous, deceptive, self-serving, and sociopathic. The types of things where you'd see it on Dateline post-murder and that's how everybody would know that the spouse did it. But I've come to realize that Courtney's behavior was/is sociopathic most of the time because that's just how she is, but she didn't murder him.

She did make his home life a living hell that he felt he couldn't escape from. She did play a huge part in turning him against his bandmates, thereby making his professional life hell. She systematically removed his closest friends from his life, leaving him few people to turn to. She did spend his money like crazy, making him feel like he had no choice but to keep earning money. She did spend the last month of his life - post-suicide attempt when he was on the verge of death - screaming at him daily that he was ruining his daughter's life by refusing to do Lollapalooza. Oh yeah, and in the final months of his life, Kurt was convinced that Courtney had lost interest in him and was cheating on him - and according to several people, he was probably correct.

Probably the least of her crimes is that she made it all but impossible for him to get off drugs because she was such a junkie herself and the only friends she hadn't completely cut him off from were also junkies. But I think Kurt was looking for a drug buddy when he hooked up with her, so that one's on him.

[Deleted]

Kurt was a dedicated and determined addict who wouldn't have quit for anyone, not even his daughter IMO. He was fucked.up. and would have been lucky to survive past 30 no matter what his circumstances were. Courtney was motivated by her need to become a star and achieve some form of celebrity glory. Kurt wasn't motivated at all to be anything. I think that's the only reason she's still alive and he isn't.

[Ginger]

Kurt really only became a junkie in the fall of 1991, right after Nevermind became a hit. Prior to Nevermind, Kurt was very motivated to make Nirvana a success, and tempered his substance use accordingly. He was very businesslike about the band, and at one point, was the cleanest-living person in his social circle (not even drinking). It's almost a shame that he became successful, because it robbed him of that motivation and also exacerbated the mental problems he'd been able to keep under some control up until that point.

[magazinewhore]

As a fan back when he was alive, I gotta chime in. I've read all the biographies: Heavier Than Heaven, Everybody Loves Our Town, even Everett True's Nirvana book, and I've spent too much time wondering what could have kept him alive. I think you Ginger and Highondegrassi are both right to some degree. The addiction was terrible, he was isolated and clinically depressed (as an addict would be), he also had a lot of mental illness in his family (including several suicides). I also think fame wasn't what he thought it would be once he got there. Courtney apparently did yell at him a lot the last year, in part because she wanted him to get clean (she was an addict then as well) and then both were supposed to be in rehab when he killed himself (she was). I think the media was pretty brutal to him and her as well (though she certainly gave as good as she got). Before Nirvana and the early 1990s, when alternative became popular, the media (particularly baby boomers) were really hostile toward Gen X (and this is something younger people don't know). I think to understand better this is an excellent article: www.theatlantic.com/past/issues/92dec/9212genx.htm

I just don't think there are any easy answers. He married Courtney; she enabled him. But I think the terrible addiction that he couldn't shake was the primary factor.

[forever1267]

Does anyone have a book recommendation on all of this? With the anniversary (20 years gone ), it would be nice to catch up with that whole period.

[magazinewhore]

Come to my house. I've been on a nostalgia tear and read several. "Everybody Loves Our Town" is really good. Then "Last Night at the Viper Room" is the story of River Phoenix. "Heavier Than Heaven" is Kurt's story, but it's known as the "Courtney-sanctioned" one. I also have several Riot Grrrl books like "Girls to the Front." Check out the movie, "The Punk Singer." My POV is certainly biased, but I was 20 in 1990.

[Ginger]

And here I am waiting for my reserve copy of "Last Night at the Viper Room" to come in at the library and to watch "The Punk Singer" this weekend. I'm a Gen-Xer on a nostalgia trip right now, too.

forever1267I think the best biography is Everett True's Nirvana: A Biography. He was there when much of this stuff was going on, and I think his outlook on the people and events is the least bullshit. He also got some good interviews out of people who were in Kurtney's inner circle in the final months who weren't interviewed before. It's the one that really made me understand how Kurt got to the point of suicide.

The second best is "Everybody Loves Our Town". You can skip over the non-Nirvana material, although I found it all fascinating, even the stuff about bands I'd never heard of. (Last night I was laughing over the section where Mark Arm from Mudhoney accused Chris Cornell of wearing tearaway shirts with the seams pre-loosened to enable him to tear off his shirt onstage every night.)

There's a lot of good stuff in "Heavier than Heaven". The part where Krist Novoselic talks about the last time he saw Kurt is heartbreaking. But it was done with Courtney's cooperation, and there are a lot of Courtney's lies/fictions in it - and not even attributed to Courtney, just presented as fact. Read Everett True's book first because he calls her out on a lot of that stuff.

Definitely don't read "Come As You Are" from 1993 because that was just a vehicle for Nirvana to beat back all the bad publicity about drug use and band tensions. But go to youtube and listen to About a Son. It's just Kurt's interviews, and most everything he says is untrue. But it's what he wished were true, and it's fascinating and heartbreaking to listen to.

[jmc]

Courtney and Eric Erlandson are on friendly terms again.

I'm not holding my breath for any new collaborations, but it does make my Hole fangirl heart happy. How long they'll stay on friendly terms, though, is anyone's guess.