Courtney Love

[Deleted]

Hm. Yeah, I think she would have. When Hole signed with a label, they were outselling Nirvana at that point. So while Kurt skyrocketed her into the public, I think she would have made it there with or without him. She always wanted to be famous.

I do think Live Through This is a fantastic album, and probably the best thing she's done (or will ever do). But its hard to seperate her from her music.

May 1, 2010 23:38:49 GMT -4 guinastasia said:

Would she ever have gotten noticed if she hadn't married Kurt? Girlfriend can't even sing -- she's terrible.

I think thats why I liked her voice. She couldn't really sing, but she had so much emotion behind the words. She had a great scream. Personally, I like that more than someone who can sing technically beautifully.

[Mouse]

Had she not married Kurt, she would not have been the media star she became. She would've been at best a fixture on alt-rock radio. More likely, she would've been at the PJ Harvey/Sonic Youth level: popular among a certain audience, but not a mainstream star. If Hole did outsell Nirvana at one point, it was for a very, very brief period.

She does have a great scream, that's for sure. But generally, I never got the love. Some artists just reach out and grab you. Hole never did that for me, and I could always take or leave their music.

[jmc]

May 1, 2010 23:53:13 GMT -4 @crow said:

I think thats why I liked her voice. She couldn't really sing, but she had so much emotion behind the words. She had a great scream. Personally, I like that more than someone who can sing technically beautifully.

Yes, exactly.

Live Through This and Pretty on the Inside (and to a much lesser extent Celebrity Skin) will always have a place in my heart. I really don't care if Hole would, or would not, have been noticed if Courtney had not married Kurt, I'm just glad those albums were a part of my life. Courtney may be repugnant, but LTT was a groundbreaking album to me, and always will be.

[Deleted]

Would she ever have gotten noticed if she hadn't married Kurt? Girlfriend can't even sing -- she's terrible.[/quote

Had she not married Kurt, she would not have been the media star she became. She would've been at best a fixture on alt-rock radio. More likely, she would've been at the PJ Harvey/Sonic Youth level: popular among a certain audience, but not a mainstream star. If Hole did outsell Nirvana at one point, it was for a very, very brief period.

I'm more interested in what would be Courtney's level of media attention/fame if Kurt never killed himself. Obviously marrying Kurt made her very famous (even iconic for a certain audience of music listener...think Kurt & Courtney Sassy Cover

But he was always the bigger more successful star, More liked and respected. When he killed himself that's what really sent Courtney celebrity over the stratosphere & she became super famous.

[Deleted]

Ugh. I am just so sick of her. I hope they make that Kurt bopic and that Dakota Fanning plays her and nails her as the crazy, drug-addled, shitty mother and person that she is. I really can't stand her and wish she would just go away.

[Mutagen]

May 1, 2010 23:53:13 GMT -4 @crow said:

I think thats why I liked her voice. She couldn't really sing, but she had so much emotion behind the words. She had a great scream. Personally, I like that more than someone who can sing technically beautifully.

ITA. Plus I would add that she's a woman with a really powerful scream. Courtney's able to channel a certain type of rage where I think, "that wouldn't sound the same and wouldn't be as powerful coming from a male singer, even a really talented male singer." And I can't stand her as a person, but I have to agree that LTT still has some really powerful moments.

[berlin]

Courtney's voice and lyrics and emotion in her music have always affected me. She has no boundaries on her emotions when she sings...it's likes everything flows out and you can really feel what she is singing. There is a great clip of an interview she gave on Amazon on the page where her album is being sold and she says how much it takes out of her to give all to an audience and how as she gets older she now feels the psychic toll it it takes on her is at times too high and how hard it is at times. Its a great great clip.
The Courtney in that clip is the Courtney I fell in love with long ago. But that same lack of boundary in her is what causes such intense reactions and hate in people and allow them to project their hate and fear I think. They use her lifestyle to blame their feelings on and the drugs etc etc but I don't think its any of that really. I think it is something primal and powerful in her that threatens people and makes them uncomfortable.

[Ginger]

I loved Live Through This. I played that cassette approximately 18,933 times in high school. (That, and Nevermind.) I still think it's a very catchy album and I love the energy to it and Courtney's screaming.

However, as time goes on I hate, hate, hate, hate Courtney's lyrics. They are so phony, generic high-school girl depression poetry. She has a vocabulary of approximately 100 words having to do with girls, dresses, dolls, makeup, pain, suicide, blah blah blah, and seems to just string them together at random. And then she makes puns out of them. She is not making clever feminist statements, she is saying NOTHING.

And while I'm at it, Kurt Cobain's lyrics were pretty juvenile and stupid too.

[Mouse]

May 2, 2010 21:15:07 GMT -4 berlin said:

But that same lack of boundary in her is what causes such intense reactions and hate in people and allow them to project their hate and fear I think. They use her lifestyle to blame their feelings on and the drugs etc etc but I don't think its any of that really. I think it is something primal and powerful in her that threatens people and makes them uncomfortable.

See, I spent the 1980s listening to X and Kate Bush--artists that gave their all in their music. And in the 1990s, I moved on to Mudhoney, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, L7, Babes in Toyland, Silverfish, Belly, and dozens of other talented and intense artists.

There was nothing, IMO, threatening about Courtney. It was her behavior that caused adverse reactions in people. The sad fact is that almost nobody who has dealt with Courtney has had anything good to say about her. It's not because she's a "bold, threatening, aggressive" woman. It's not because of her "fearlessness" and "lack of boundaries." It's because she's a really nasty, malicious person--an outright sociopath. The fact that she has a restraining order keeping her away from her daughter says it all.

Besides, she was never that interested in music. She loved the trappings of celebrity, but as time went on, it was obvious she didn't want to put in the work to justify it. If she'd been serious about playing music and not about giving interviews and famewhoring, then she'd be an interesting, challenging artist.

She is a celebrity first and a performer second. That's why people bring up her lifestyle. She is really not much different from the Kardashians, Paris, etc.

[angelaudie]

And while I'm at it, Kurt Cobain's lyrics were pretty juvenile and stupid too.

I've long said the only reason why Nirvana is hailed as the GREATEST. BAND. EVER! is because Kurt Cobain died. Had he lived Nirvana would have probably split up and just been another 90's grunge band. The only good thing to come out of Nirvana is the Foo Fighters.

I admit I did like some songs from Celebrity Skin though I get why many Hole fans hated it. It definitely had a more pop sound though I think it sounded more like rock than the other rock band out at the time. Courtney sounded better and there were songs that didn't sound like high school depression poetry (perfect description Ginger!). Of course, she was clean at the time so that probably explains it.