Courtney Love

[magazinewhore]

I just read that article too. It sounds like a couple times a year, she gets like a a few hundred thousand from royalties from Nirvana. She needs someone who she can trust to handle her money. The story about her performing at a manor home in England and having a guy yell out, "Play Nirvana music!" is kind of sad. I know she's a mess and her own worst enemy, but I still think she's demonized for being a woman. As somebody once said, Kurt was sad and a mess and everyone loved him, she's angry and a mess and everyone hates her.

[huntergrayson]

I agree. She's fucked up, but it's just sad at this point and so many other male rock stars/musicians get a pass for equally drugged-out/crazy/obnoxious behavior (case in point: Chris Brown has defenders and stans, despite being an entitled, abusive rageaholic). I didn't find the full text/interview yet but I did find the infamous Hirschberg piece. Which is disturbingly prophetic:

"Courtney and Kurt are the nineties, much more talented version of Sid and Nancy," says one executive. "She's going to be famous and he already is, but unless something happens, they're going to self-destruct. I know they're both going to be big stars. I just don't want to be a part of it."

That was back in 1992.

[Mouse]

I have to disagree here. Axl Rose was pilloried for similar behavior and is now largely considered a has-been and a joke. Courtney has a history of horrible behavior and treating others like shit. I'm not just talking about nasty comments but physical attacks and outright threats. She had a lot of goodwill in the 1990s and, like Chris Brown, had a lot of defenders as well as detractors.

My boyfriend is a music journalist and has heard stories first hand about Courtney. And one of his closest friends was a huge Courtney fan and apologist until around 2004, when the friend finally said, "Enough. I can't defend her anymore."

Courtney isn't a victim of sexism. She is in a hole (pun intended) that she dug for herself.

[Deleted]

Oct 19, 2011 13:46:55 GMT -4 @huntergrayson said:

I agree. She's fucked up, but it's just sad at this point and so many other male rock stars/musicians get a pass for equally drugged-out/crazy/obnoxious behavior (case in point: Chris Brown has defenders and stans, despite being an entitled, abusive rageaholic). I didn't find the full text/interview yet but I did find the infamous Hirschberg piece. Which is disturbingly prophetic:

"Courtney and Kurt are the nineties, much more talented version of Sid and Nancy," says one executive. "She's going to be famous and he already is, but unless something happens, they're going to self-destruct. I know they're both going to be big stars. I just don't want to be a part of it."

That was back in 1992.

She just makes me sad know. I miss this Courtney:

Courtney's deal, worth around a million dollars, is bigger and better than her husband's. She and Carroll insisted on that. "I got excellent contractual things," she boasts. "I made them pull out Nirvana's contract, and everything on there, I wanted more. I'm up to half a million for my publishing rights, and I'm still walking. If those sexist assholes want to think that Kurt and I write songs together, they can come forward with a little more." She pauses. "No matter what label I'm on, I'm going to be his wife," she says. "I'm enough of a person to transcend that."

Then she moved to Portland briefly, and by 1989 she was back in Los Angeles. "I just couldn't take it anywhere else," she explains. "Minneapolis was so fucking un-pretentious. Everyone has a flannel collection and is in a band named after a welding instrument."

[Deleted]

Oct 19, 2011 13:57:11 GMT -4 Mouse said:

Courtney has a history of horrible behavior and treating others like shit. I'm not just talking about nasty comments but physical attacks and outright threats.

Kurt did that, too, though. I watched a documentary about the 2 of them and there was tape of Kurt threatening to kill a journalist. I wasn't a fan of him back then, so I don't know how people regarded him before he died, though.

Courtney isn't a victim of sexism. She is in a hole (pun intended) that she dug for herself.

Even as a non-fan, I still know that there was all kinds of stuff said about Courtney - that she murdered Kurt, that Kurt wrote the Live Through This record for her - that to me, is pretty obviously motivated by sexism. Yes, she's an unpleasant person and her vagina is not the only reason people hate her. But I think it's incorrect to say she's not a victim of sexism.

[jmc]

Yes, she's an unpleasant person and her vagina is not the only reason people hate her. But I think it's incorrect to say she's not a victim of sexism.

Agreed. The things that were said about her during the height of her fame and when Kurt was alive was ridiculous. Yes, her treatment of Frances and the people around her was awful, but it doesn't excuse the crap Nirvana fans and some in the media said about her.

[spider]

People didn't think she was good enough for Kurt Cobain. Not pretty enough especially. And she didn't pal around with the girls, she held herself up as the equal to any frontman in rock, which was another public strike against her.

She's crazy as a loon but she has undoubtedly been the target of a lot of sexism. No serious reporter goes around interviewing male rock stars acquaintances to see what they think of them.

[Ginger]

I think if Kurt had stayed alive his behavior would have gotten tiresome to people too, especially if Nirvana ceased putting out good music. In a way, Kurt knew that, and that's part of why he killed himself.

The story about her performing at a manor home in England and having a guy yell out, "Play Nirvana music!" is kind of sad.

I don't find that especially sad as Courtney quite often plays Nirvana songs in concert. She always did. I've got a really old bootleg with her playing Pennyroyal Tea & the same Leadbelly cover Nirvana did on Unplugged. It's been a while since I've listened to Hole, but there's actually a substantial list of Nirvana songs that Courtney hijacked, often claiming she wrote it and that Kurt stole it from *her*.

[americanchai]

She may be a "victim" of sexism but she's also a huge perpetrator of it. She took credit for riot grrrl-style feminism and then spent a lot of interviews shitting on actual riot grrrls. She made horrible statements about all kinds of ex-girlfriends and/or female friends of Kurt's, particularly those in bands (i.e. Kathleen Hanna, Tobi Vail). Even Billy Corgan who was a huge supporter of her in good times and bad finally got sick of the bullshit and, by all accounts, he's a class A dick himself. Since most of us don't know her personally, we can only go by the anecdotes, most of which are negative.

[Deleted]

Courtney is such a horrid person that I don't think she'd get a pass for her behavior if she was a man. Maybe if she was a really hot looking guy with some charm but not a male version of herself (e.g., angry, prone to violent outbursts, egotistical, charmless, mouthy, not conventionally attractive, hyper-sensitive while being insensitive to others, etc.)

However, I do think there's a sexist element to the DEGREE of vitriol heaped at her. There's something about an angry, mouthy, not conventionally attractive FEMALE that gets under some people's skins more than a male like that. Just an impression I have.

To be honest I'm always kind of shocked when I read someone was in a relationship with her. Like Edward Norton. What's the appeal? Maybe it's like this phenom I've observed of mousy women with asshole husbands and boyfriends. This is completely anecdotal but one thing I noticed in the three relationships I've observed that fit that description:
The mousy partner ENJOYS having an asshole by their side. The asshole serves as a front and says and does things the mousy one is afraid to. They live vicariously through them (while keeping their nose clean). I wonder if that was part of what Kurt liked about Courtney? He LIKED when she'd get up in people's faces and created scenes, started feuds, etc because he didn't want to do it himself.