Meryl Streep

[Deleted]

kafka said:

tennisfan said:

Really? I stand corrected, then.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean my answer in a snippy or condescending way. I was just in a rush because I was doing several things at once and also had to get ready to go to the dentist.

No, no, no. Kafka, don't worry, I didn't take it that way, that's why I put the smilie. Hopefully your dentist didn't hurt you too much...

Yossarian, I didn't know about her commitment to those causes. As if we needed an extra reason to love her... ::bows in admiration to Ms. Streep::

Wow, I love the discussion in this thread! Really well-thought posts! tversky, I don't think anybody here would attack you for that. You made some excellent points, and I partially agree with you: as I've said before, I think nobody but Emma should have been in Remains of the Days, she owned that character. But I can't agree about Out of Africa, I discovered Meryl's greatness with that movie (before that, I thought she was overrated - forgive me, I was young and naive ). Her look when she's notified of Denys' death, and later, at the funeral, wow! Amazing acting, very understated but moving.

[kafka]

niddlemiddle said:

And Kafka, for the record, my son calls me Mommy and after I offended you I came to the realization, I really love how it sounds. I secretly hope I'll always be his mommy.

Heh. How sweet. As for your daughter, you're in a bind because there is only so much one's parents can lay down the rules before it becomes a question of rebellion for the child or before the child becomes subject to bullying for being too different, looking too different and/or being considered a nerd. I don't have children but I think of the dilemma you've posed quite a lot. It's hard but with love, I think it's manageable.

Topic: Yossarian, thank you for sharing that information. As Tennisfan said, yet another reason to admire and respect Meryl.

Tversky, take off the suit, honey. You certainly won't get flamed by me and I doubt by anyone else either. I completely see your point and I agree about some of the casting choices. Especially Remains of the Day. I also agree that she's not the most suitable person for characterising raw, lusty sexuality. That said, I think she's bloody effective at showing sensuality. French Lieutenant's Woman comes to mind, as does The Bridges of Madison County. The latter may not be an example of blatant sexuality but the sensuality was there. Same with the scene in Out of Africa where Robert Redford is washing her hair and she's slowly, sensuously moving her head from side to side as his fingers occasionally flicker against her neck.

Was it Heartburn or Ironweed in which she had an affair? I've only seen bits of each, and too long ago to really remember them.

[pepper67]

I haven't seen a lot of Meryl Streep's films, but I loved Death Becomes Her although I know a lot of people don't. Actually, I was surprised to find that that film isn't that popular. I think it's a hoot!

I also liked Postcards From the Edge as well, especially the end when Meryl's singing. She's got a nice voice and that entire scene is pure fun.

Btw, Kafka, I love Georgette Heyer's books too.

[niddlemiddle]

tversky said:

I still say other actresses would've been better suited for Silkwood, Postcards from the Edge, Out of Africa, and Heartburn among others.

I can see all of those except Out Of Africa. That is my absolute favorite movie! I watch it at least once a year and her performance was remarkable. She was able to portray the combination of vulnerability and strength that the character needed.

[chameleon]

She's always had a motherly look, someone whom I'd be ashamed to see in a sex scene.(Is there any movie where she had any explicit sex scenes?)

Check out the scene where she fucks Sting - hard - on the couch in Plenty. Yowza.

And ITA about Streep being an actress while Hepburn is an icon. That must be why Hepburn liked Horseface, who will be similarly remembered for being America's Sweetheart with a megawatt smile rather than a real actress. At least, that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise I'd have to reconsider my Hepburn love.

[Deleted]

Based on what everyone has said I'll have to watch Out of Africa again. I was a little iffy about adding that film to my list of "Roles Meryl snagged that should have gone to others." I don't remember being pissed that she got that particular role. But I recall thinking while I watched the film "I just don't feel this woman at all. I don't connect with her on any level." That's not the same as feeling her emotions. It's connecting with her as a person. (Does that distinction make any sense?) I think "accessibility" is an important element to some heroine roles. When accessibility isn't a key part of the role, I've LOVED Meryl's performance e.g.-- Sophie's Choice, The French Lieutenant's Woman , Kramer vs. Kramer, A Cry in the Dark, Manhatten, Julia, etc. But whenever it's been a key component of the role, I've felt someone else would've been better for this part. e.g. -- Silkwood, Postcards from the Edge, Heartburn, Falling in Love, and maybe (I'll go back and see) Out of Africa, etc.

By the way Kafka: Falling in Love was the film where her character had the affair. Once again, I think she was supposed to be an accesible, relatable woman and I don't think that's what she does well. (Although from what I've heard, Meryl's a very cool and relatable person in real life. She seems to make new female friends on all her movies. That alone tells me she's got to be a very easy to relate to and likable person. Women that are true friends to other women? Very cool.)

I guess I should clarify about the raw, blatant sexuality:
I think Meryl can be very sensual on film. But when I say she lacks raw sexiness I mean she doesn't seem like she just plain ENJOYS sex - raw, lusty, down and dirty gettin' it on. lol. Honestly, there aren't alot of actresses that do give me that impression: Looking at Meryl's contemporaries: I'd say Jessica Lange, Debra Winger, Melanie Griffith, and Susan Sarandon do. Not every role requires raw, blatant sexuality (just like accessiblity isn't always required). Karen Silkwood though did. Meryl's Silkwood was sort of girly and coy in her sexiness. Ugh. It annoyed the shit of me. Redneck girls aren't girly and coy. I should know (as a redneck.) Meryl and Cher should've switched roles for that film.

[kafka]

chameleon said:

She's always had a motherly look, someone whom I'd be ashamed to see in a sex scene.(Is there any movie where she had any explicit sex scenes?)

Check out the scene where she fucks Sting - hard - on the couch in Plenty. Yowza.

<blink>

Wow. How the HELL did I miss this film???

And ITA about Streep being an actress while Hepburn is an icon. That must be why Hepburn liked Horseface, who will be similarly remembered for being America's Sweetheart with a megawatt smile rather than a real actress. At least, that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise I'd have to reconsider my Hepburn love.

Do you think Hepburn considered Horseface to be an icon in the way she herself was? If so, I don't get it. HorseyB***h is (or, hopefully, was) merely an incredibly popular actress whom men found to be extremely attractive; just as many actresses have been in the past (Natalie Wood, Ali McGraw, Farah Fawcett, etc.). But none have lasted long enough or had serious enough impact to become an "Icon." Cher is an icon, as are Judy Garland and Joan Crawford, in the gay community but apart from that group, I don't think most people would consider Joan Crawford to be an icon (my favorite line of all time, "NO MORE WIRE HANGERS... EVER" notwithstanding).

I'm not a Hepburn fan, nor do I dislike her. I do, however, lean towards the Hepburn is a B***h school of thought. I think it's more than likely that Hepburn felt threatened by The Great Meryl while not being threatened at all by an actress known mostly for her looks. After all, from what I've read since this thread started, didn't Kate make her comment far before Horsey won an Oscar? Up to then, Horsey was known mostly for playing a prostitute and for her looks. To me, it's totally in vein for Hepburn to slam a serious competitor for her self-imagined title as the Best Actress EVAH* while holding up someone like Julia Roberts out of her twisted, somewhat spiteful sense of irony.

* I say "self-imagined" because most critics think the title goes to Bette Davis. I like Katherine Hepburn's performances in some films (like the Lion in WInter which others have mentioned) but I think she's hugely over-hyped and is more justifiably famous for her life, personality and willingness to buck the trend, than for her actual acting. In the early days, the latter smacked painfully of the old school, Vaudeville-influenced, over-acting and over-exaggeration.

ETA: Tversky, we were writing at the same time. I see your point and I can agree with it, minus Out of Afrika. I'm not sure I would include Susan Sarandon on your list because she always seem to have that ineffable quality of a lady, even in her sexual roles, which characterizes Meryl. I think it's that "Lady" factor which probably makes it hard to think of Meryl as a lusty, bawdy maid. Someone who *does* have the latter quality is Ellen Barkin.

[Oxynia]

chameleon said:

Check out the scene where she fucks Sting - hard - on the couch in Plenty. Yowza.

That description is ripped right out of my fantasies...Must. Buy. DVD. Today.

[Deleted]

I, too, am intrigued (to say the least) about the scene in Plenty. Woo Hoo!

I think Meryl has loosened up quite a bit in recent years and is much more relatable these days. I thought she was extremely appealing in Adaptation (it was a hell of a role - intellectual and remote then sexy and earthy) but I agree that she, especially in her early roles, projected this cool remoteness that could be sexy in the right role (The French Lt's Woman, even Manhattan) but sometimes that coolness prevented the audience from feeling for the character (Falling in Love springs to mind but the movie was pretty bad - when Streep and DeNiro suck, something has gone terribly wrong). Lately, there is something free and sexy or at least sexual about her performances. Her characters in Adaptation, The Hours and The Mancuhrian Candidate all had this palpable sexual undercurrent going on. Of course, at the core these were upper class women, so I don't know that she is going to be awesome at projecting a blue collar earthiness and sensuality, but it wouldn't surprise me to find her capable of this these days.

[Deleted]

In Ironweed she doesn't have an affair per se, but she blows a dude in a car for some money (or food, can't remember). It's not sexy, however, as she and Jack Nicholson portray a homeless couple during the Depression.

But one of her most heartbreaking scenes is in that movie, IMO: when she sings the big number in the nightclub, and we think it's going well until it's revealed at the end that the audience standing O is only in her fantasy.