Alec Baldwin

[Deleted]

Where is it on record that Baldwin has physically abused either Basinger or Ireland?

Ergo, I said "accusations of physical violence." There have been eyewitness reports of him manhandling and screaming at KB in public, though. The severe verbal abuse is what he said on the leaked message.

I don't think family court is as black and white as you'd like to think. I work with custody cases exactly like this on a regular basis. They are never black and white.

I never said it was black and white. All I said is that based on his past history of temper and anger issues and based on his grotesque message to his daughter, I think he should lose visitation rights. I don't care if you don't agree with me. Quite frankly, the fact that the judge did suspend his rights tells me that she felt that he had displayed sufficient piss poor parenting to warrant it. I already acknowledged that there is a troubled history and various other factors at play so if you want to accuse me of being naive or myopic, that's fine.

[sumire]

Where is it on record that Baldwin has physically abused either Basinger or Ireland? I've never read any documentation of that. I've only read rumors on the internet about Basinger, never Ireland. Also, I've never, ever read that Basinger has ever claimed that Baldwin verbally abuses Ireland, outside of this one incident.

I read this and I picture the Protestants and the Catholics joining together to kick Baldwin's ass. I say the abuser is the one who gave her that stupid name--why couldn't they have just named her Erin?

[marleigh]

lucypevensie said:

Where is it on record that Baldwin has physically abused either Basinger or Ireland?

Ergo, I said "accusations of physical violence." There have been eyewitness reports of him manhandling and screaming at KB in public, though.

I don't think family court is as black and white as you'd like to think. I work with custody cases exactly like this on a regular basis. They are never black and white.

I never said it was black and white. All I said is that based on his past history of temper and anger issues and based on his grotesque message to his daughter, I think he should lose visitation rights. I don't care if you don't agree with me. Quite frankly, the fact that the judge did suspend his rights tells me that she felt that he had displayed sufficient piss poor parenting to warrant it. I already acknowledged that there is a troubled history and various other factors at play so if you want to accuse me of being naive or myopic, that's fine.

Oh my! I would never call you "naive" or "myopic", so chill. But yeah, I think your perspective is very black and white when you advocate permanently terminating a parent's contact with his child over one incident. An incident over the phone, no less. I would even go so far as to say it's extreme, unrealistic and excessively harsh. I do question how much real world experience you have with custody cases though to have such an inflexible mindset. I agree the judge was absolutely correct in suspending visitation. But to terminate it permanently? No, that's a bit extreme in my book.

To all and sundry, I am in no way am defending Baldwin's behavior. Far from it. I feel he and Basinger are in desperate need of intense therapy. As with any custody case, there are two sides to every case. As I wrote previously, I hope they can get it together for Ireland's sake.

Funny, I'm not even a Baldwin fan.

[Yossarian]

I think the temperature in this thread needs to be taken down a notch. Obviously, Alec's behaviour has not been the best but we don't know the intracacies of the situation and arguing with each other over whether he should/will lose custody is not that productive. And once again, please don't be snippy with each other. Save the snark for the celebrities! Thanks.

[Oxynia]

Seriously, people, you have been warned twice to stay away from personal attacks! If it happens again, we're going to start terminating accounts. If you don't respect mod directions, you'll force the inevitable banning of your sorry self. So knock it off now!

[Margo]

What I hear in this message is much more than just the words. To me this sounds like so many other cases of parents of an only child despising each other and the child being caught between the two. The unsaid implication seems to be "Ireland, you're treating me like shit because this is how your mother is influencing you to behave". The child is often pulled from one side to another. Each parent often subconsciously interprets getting along really well with the child as the child being on his/her side and seeing the error of the other parent's ways. And when the child misbehaves in some way, or even voices a previously unheard opinion on a particular subject, it is thought to be the other, evil parent's influence.

Yeah, I project too much. But on the other hand, I don't need to try - I listen to Alec and, rather, I'm shocked that you guys are so shocked. It also seems like his rant (again, not explicitly) is directed at the "other side", and on some level he's not isolating Ireland as a separate (small) human being. I bet there's also this type of feeling on his part - "now she has started to treat me badly exactly in the same manner her mother did". He is not speaking to a child at all - there is absolutely nothing in that monologue (well, except for all those times I bet he wanted to say "motherfucking fuck" and held off that would even hint at the age of the person it's directed to.

All his anger at his wife and their endless custody battles is spilling out and Ireland is caught in the middle. He seems to have zero self-control and no ability whatsoever to separate people in this situation and not project things he dislikes (to put it mildly) about Kim or just his anger at her onto Ireland, at least to some degree. This seems consistent with all the other reports about his temper - this guy needs therapy in the sense of teaching him life skills that somehow never got acquired.

[Deleted]

He is not speaking to a child at all - there is absolutely nothing in that monologue (well, except for all those times I bet he wanted to say "motherfucking fuck" and held off ) that would even hint at the age of the person it's directed to.

ITA. It didn't sound like a father that temporarily lost his shit because he was frustrated with his misbehaving daughter. It sounded like a hurt, angry rejected lover. IMO at least. All that PERSONALIZED stuff "You made me feel like shit", et. al sounded bizarre in the context of a father and daughter relationship (particularly given Ireland's age).
So anyway, I agree with you that he seems to be projecting his anger, frustration and hurt with Kim on to his daughter.

[fairfox]

It sounded like a hurt, angry rejected lover. IMO at least. All that PERSONALIZED stuff "You made me feel like shit", et. al sounded bizarre in the context of a father and daughter relationship (particularly given Ireland's age).

That was my first reaction, too. He is clearly a douche for speaking to his child this way, legal issues aside (and I agree that it would be very rare to lose all parental rights because of a phone conversation - but the legal issue and the moral issue are different things), but I just couldn't get over how...childish he sounded. Dude, you're the grown-up, literally, in that situation! I fear for that poor child's sanity. No one - not even an adult stranger deserves to be spoken to that way. But his own pre-adolescent daughter? Calling her a "pig"? He's a gross human being.

[Deleted]

My two cents and then I'll retreat.

I'm still on team Alec. This nasty divorce/custody issue has dragged on for years. Ireland is caught in the middle. Alec is in the minority here. He would fight to the ends of the earth for a relationship with his daughter, not many men would do that. It's much easier to give up and just let their mother raise them while they go on about with their lives. To me, he just sounds hurt, frustrated, and it seems as if it's always an uphill battle to get any sort of time with her.

I don't for one second, believe that Kim doesn't screen her daughter's phone messages. I think Alec knew that and was actually talking to Kim while pretending he was talking to Ireland. The fact that she leaked it to the media is enough proof for me that she would do anything to paint Alec as a heathen. It wouldn't take much digging to see all the nasty, evil things she has accused Alec of doing in the past in regards to this issue.

Alec is hurt because his daughter is shutting him out of her life, due to the influences of her mom. 12 years old is old enough to know what's right and wrong, and to turn her phone off knowing he was going to call? That's just being a pig brat.

And I honestly feel he used the term 'pig' in a different context than is being considered. " Pig: a person of piglike character, behavior, or habits, greedy, selfish, or filthy. " I see habits, greedy and selfish in that arguement. Then again, I see what I chose to see on team Alec.

***retreats back to corner vowing never to touch upon this subject again*****

[underjoyed]

margojata said:

Well, I can't think of a reason why you'd ever talk that way to a child. Yes, we get frustrated as parents, but we are the adults.

Well, precisely. As someone pointed out earlier, kids can be annoying and obnoxious and uncooperative and unreasonable and bratty and just generally behave in ways that no one would tolerate from an adult. Because...they're not adults; they're kids. She's 12 years old. What's his excuse?