Firefly: A Space Western

[Laira]

Geez o man, who greenlighted this turkey? Whedon took the characters from Angel/Buffy The Vampire Slayer, recast them with inferior actors and changed their names and set the show in 500 years in the future but had the 'advanced' planets look like leftover sets from Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Add to this faux western dialogue combined with chinese cursing and plots recycled from other scifi shows (e.g. Blake's Seven) and you get this mega dud.

I tried watching it, but couldn't get past the great space hoedown complete with fiddle music and gingham sunbonnets. I don't think Whedon intended for the audience to hoot with laughter.

The only way the western scenes work if you fanwank that the 'frontier' planets are the remains of an abandoned 'western' theme park franchise and the inhabitants are the descendents of the hapless role playing employees.

I'm surprised it lasted all of 11 eps.

[petra]

It's funny, I agree with most of what you said, but I still loved the show.

It may be because of my dual crushes on Mal and Simon.

[Deleted]

Have only watched the pilot episode; good, but not great. Hard to see what all the fuss is about really, but since I'm not really a Joss Whedon fan I'll watch a bit more to see if it grows on me.

On thing that must be said, though; I hate that theme tune.

[Maddiemoo]

I have so much love for this show. It really wasn't given a fair chance when it aired, especially when they showed all those episodes out of order. I remember seeing an episode where they drop a herd of cattle off on a planet, followed by an episode where the cows are back on the ship, then an episode where they actually get the cows. Stupid Fox.

Anyway, I'll always dig this show for it's humor, charm, wit, and very, very pretty boys. Ah, Simon, how I adore you.

[laconicchick]

I didn't watch this show when it aired (though I was aware of the fan stuff peripherally), but I watched the pilot at a friend's house in July and then the movie last month. I could tell this was the sort of thing I could easily become obsessed with, so when my boyfriend and I came into some gift cards we bought the DVDs (last weekend). We've now seen all the episodes, and... I love this show. I don't know why. I know it's hokey. But I love it! I can't explain it. It's just so good! I don't care if that's not a popular opinion. Love!

[bitsygirl]

I can totally see all the flaws with this show and I actually think alot of the criticisms are justified, but I still loved it . I thought it had potential and I was sorry it was cancelled so quickly.

[laconicchick]

Okay, so my friends and I have been watching the DVDs (them for the first time, me for the fourth or so), and we had a bit of an argument because they hate Jayne. I love Jayne. They think he is dispicable and evil. I think he is awesome and hot. I said he's not evil, but chaotic. He does what's best for him, because he's a mercenary. My boyfriend and I later got into a discussion of where this would put him, and the rest of the Firefly people, on the D&D alignment chart (oh, we're that nerdy). This is what we came up with:

Lawful Good: The Operative
Neutral Good: Wash, Simon
Chaotic Good: Kaylee
Lawful Neutral: Zoe, Book, Inara, Alliance
True Neutral: River
Chaotic Neutral: Mal
Lawful Evil: Niska
Neutral Evil: Jayne, Saffron
Chaotic Evil: Reavers

Originally we had things slightly differently, but we consulted the players' handbook and changed it around a bit. This is what we originally had:

Lawful Good: Simon
True Neutral: Mal
Chaotic Neutral: Jayne, Saffron

What do you think? Unfortunately we reached the conclusion that Jayne could be evil, but so what? I play evil characters all the time; at least they're not BORING.

Sadly, we don't have the Serenity RPG or we could just have used that.

[Maddiemoo]

I don't think Jayne is good or evil, just...Jayne-centric. Heh. I mean, we know that'll he'll turn on whoever he's working for if he gets a better deal out of it, but he doesn't hide that fact. He tells Mal in the pilot that there's a possibility that one day he might get an opportunity to turn on him, and then in "Ariel", he does. But it's not like he pledged his loyalty to Mal or especially River and Simon, and Mal knew that.

I think that getting caught/almost sucked out of the ship scared him a bit, though, and after Ariel he's less reluctant to take a better deal because he knows if it doesn't work, Mal wont be as forgiving.

(But as for me, whatever he is, I will always love that Box-Dropping-Man-Ape-Gone-Wrong-Thing. ;D)

[laconicchick]

Yeah, we originally went with chaotic neutral because he just does whatever is best for him, but then we read the Player's Handbook and it says (I left out a few bits):

A neutral evil villain does whatever he can get away with. He is out for himself, pure and simple. He sheds no tears for those he kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. [...] He doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has. The criminal who robs and murders to get what he wants is neutral evil. Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honour and without variation.

Though, you know, he did feel bad about the dude who threw himself in front of the bullet in Jaynestown. So I don't know. Here's the description for chaotic neutral:

A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions.

I don't think he's evil in that he intends to hurt people for no reason or whatnot. But he certainly fits the first description, so... I don't know; it's a tough one.

/geek

[Deleted]

laconicchick said:

Yeah, we originally went with chaotic neutral because he just does whatever is best for him, but then we read the Player's Handbook and it says (I left out a few bits):

A neutral evil villain does whatever he can get away with. He is out for himself, pure and simple. He sheds no tears for those he kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. [...] He doesn't have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has. The criminal who robs and murders to get what he wants is neutral evil. Neutral evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents pure evil without honour and without variation.

Though, you know, he did feel bad about the dude who threw himself in front of the bullet in Jaynestown. So I don't know. Here's the description for chaotic neutral:

A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn't strive to protect others' freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions.

I don't think he's evil in that he intends to hurt people for no reason or whatnot. But he certainly fits the first description, so... I don't know; it's a tough one.

/geek

Oh, so nerdy! I love it!

And I think Jayne is definitely chaotic neutral. He kills those who are out to kill him first. I don't believe he would rob and murder someone in cold blood. And I can't see him killing "for sport". And he is absolutely an individualist first and last.

Neutral evil, IMO, would have killed Simon and River just to get them off the boat and out of his hair.

But he DID sell them out to the Alliance, knowing that was effectively signing their death (or worse) warrants. So, hmmm....could be a tough call.